Jump to content

RugesV

Member
  • Posts

    374
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by RugesV

  1. 9 hours ago, NQ-Wanderer said:

    SALVAGE OPERATIONS

    I love a bit of exploration. And this could be something interesting todo.  And I suppose the question is going to be what are the rewards vrs the time/risk going to be.  Am I going to be able to go out and salvage 10m worth of parts in 2 hours?  Or am I going to spend 2 hours to get a couple parts I can salvage for 10k in profit?  This has to be pretty hard for NQ to balance. 

  2. Aegis market needs no advertising.  Other then an awareness on what it is.  a market in space that has a warp beacon to it in the center of the safe zone.  You dont need to fly planet side to sell stuff, you dont need to haul your stuff off planet either.  it is equal parts away from all the safe zone planets.   Thus it is the easiest market to get to for the most amount of players.  With the only disadvantages being you need a space ship. 

     

    Market 6 was always going to be the defacto market at start.  Thats just alpha diehards being alpha diehards.   

     

    But I dont think any of this is a problem with the Aegis market not becoming the defacto market.  Because anyone wanting to sell or buy 2,000 tons of goods would much rather fly to Aegis then Allioth. 

     

    I think the real problem with the Aegis market is the economy in general.  Most of the population does not have quanta to buy things. That 100k a day is not going to give the masses allot of buying power.  With the only other income being transportation missions. And yea some people are making allot of quanta running missions. But thats not everyones cup of tea. And trying to rely on mission runners to inject quanta into the economy is laughable. 

     

    Its one of the reasons I was so against removing T1 bot orders.  It was not that I was making allot of quanta selling ore to bots.  It was that the masses where able to sell to the bots to get quanta to buy stuff I put on the market.  Right now I feel everyone is trying to hold onto the quanta they have which is going to hurt the economy even more, which will drive more players out of the game.  And its going to take an NQ comity 6 months just to have a discussion about having a discussion to fix the economy. 

  3. 18 hours ago, Rokkur said:

    Said Stuff

     

    Step 1 Fractualize the playerbase.

    Step 2 Remove players from the playerbase

    Step 3 Implement a game mechanic that only 2 percent of gamers have. 

    Step 4 Put the cost onto the players

    Step 5 implement a cash shop that will be circumvented by all the moding you are going to allow. 

    Step 6 have the players create all the content. 

     

    With these brilliant idea's I would say you already work for NQ. 

  4. Man the skill it must have taken to add this recycling feature in.  I see why its taken 2 months to add content to the game.  Cannot wait for AVA combat to be added in soon. I mean if all you have to do is right click another player an select PVP. Should not be hard to rng a 0 or 1 from that and proclaim a winner.  I mean what 3 or 4 months to add in those couple lines of code?  Great work NQ, theres your positive feedback. 

  5. Here since you guys are not going to post a topic we can talk about this change in I will

     

    "but ultimately this amount of quanta flowing into the economy could not last"

    103 markets. with 10,000,000 buy orders at 25 quanta each for 4 types of ore is. 103,000,000,000 quanta  Now there are ~25,000 claimed territories. assume only 18,000 of those are paid territories. that is 9,000,000,000 quanta a week in taxes. 

     

    My question to NQ is where is this 9,000,000,000 quanta a week going to come from?  The only thing that brings that kind of quanta into the game now is mission running. And you have basically made mission running a requirement to play the game. 

     

    now lets say bots remained ingame.  Of those 18,000 tiles Lets figure an average of 300 T1 ore per tile. with an average with max skills and an average of 1.2 adjacency bonus. So each tile yields 70,000 liters of T1 a week. Some will produce more, but some will produce less. So roughly 1.2b of ore a week for all the tiles. Lets figure half of that went to bots and the other half went to industry. 600m liters is 15b quanta.  After taxes that is only adding in 6B a week in quanta into the game.  Figure 10,000 active players that 6b turns into 600k per player. I dont think thats really breaking the game. 

     

    NQ, correct me if I am wrong here in my numbers, they are rough guestimates, but so far I think they are probably pretty close to the truth.  The harder part is trying to figure out how much quanta is leaving the game due to schematics. My group is probably going through 1-5m per player per week. which is more then 600k I quoted above.  That is still a net loss in quanta per week. 

     

    Mission running is also adding in quanta. And I suspect it adds in allot more quanta per week then bots ever did. How much of your population does hauling missions vrs bot selling. Pretty sure the majority of your player base did bot selling, where only a couple did missions. by removing bot selling your hurting all those players. 

     

    "but ultimately this amount of quanta flowing into the economy could not last"

    So how much of this faucet was from bot orders and how much of this faucet is from mission running? As I have already show that bot orders are not breaking the economy. So it has to be missions that are bringing to much quanta into the game. How about you fix that? 

     

    Of course if your happy with the amount of quanta that is in the game. Remove all the faucets and sinks. Get rid of territory taxes, get rid of schematic costs get rid of mission quanta rewards get rid of daily logins. Make mission runners rewarded with schematics and elements.  

  6. 2 hours ago, Honvik said:

     

    Actually a number of people I do know have sold a lot of ore gained from calibrating high tier ore.   Ore is something people hold onto it isnt always a case of selling it at least onto markets that is.  Prices are rising more recently because the mining calibrations issue may have been resolved.  Of course calibrations apply to more alts needed to sustain.

     

    Either way it was overused and abused IMO.  I know of a number of people with a lot of T5's T4s (not in my org) who firmly used it.  I did wonder why they dont armour their ships etc but they holding back until CCS/Voxels are worth it again

    yes allot of people did sell it. but I am pointing out in the grand scheme of things that amount of ore did not imbalance the economy. Because if it was that imbalanced the prices for the calibrated ore would be allot lower then the price of ore you cannot calibrate. 

  7. On 11/18/2022 at 4:21 AM, Honvik said:

     

    Except it was highly abused.  I know of multiple people who have billions made from high tier ore farms that had 1/2 l of T4/5.  It was not intended gameplay and NQ had to do something to balance the economy before it was too late.

    Also it was not highly abused. This is a pure mental misconception.  If this was the case we would see allot more Ilmenite on the market then columbite an rhodonite and vanadiite.  All the numbers look to be about the same.  If this was the case we would see allot more Cobaltite and Cryolie then Gold and Kolbeckite on the market.  This is not the case the numbers are about the same.  Sure gold prices are a bit higher, but thats always been the case for gold. 

     

    And if the thought that calibrating like this was adding to much more into the game. When the new planets get added in All those calibration points are now gong to be put towards full flowers which will add in 10 times the amount that this "abused" mechanic added in. I mean unless NQ does something crazy like only adding 3 or 4 flowers to these new planets. 

     

    People need to stop worrying about what other people have, and worry about what they have. 

  8. 9 minutes ago, Honvik said:

     

    Except it was highly abused.  I know of multiple people who have billions made from high tier ore farms that had 1/2 l of T4/5.  It was not intended gameplay and NQ had to do something to balance the economy before it was too late.

    Billions from selling Titanium? since thats the only T5  that you can currently calibrate in game. And the only thing you can make with that is Mining units, Scrap, and honeycomb.  Now Cryolite and Cobaltite are the ony 2 T4's that you can calibrate with. Which you would need to calibrate 3,000,000l of the stuff to get billions.

     

    I have no doubt that the friends you know have billions of quanta. But I doubt they made those billions by single calibration tiles. Did they make a profit from being able to do so? yes. But they would have made more with those calibrations if they had a proper flower setup.

     

    The only people this change helps is people who where early and got proper tiles setup in the first place. But it hurts so many more people who formed there entire game play from calibration hexes. 

  9. 9 hours ago, Rimezx said:

    Bot orders are not needed at all. Adding them creates quanta inflation making everyone keeping quanta instead of ore lose their money's value. Let simple supply and demand regulate the economy. If that cannot be done then the game is pretty much dead imho. 

    Figure 9 billion a week in territory taxes, and another 3-5 billion a week in schematics. Figure there is 50,000 daily logins every week That adds 5 billion to the economy. Where is the other 9 billion going to come from in your vision of no bot orders?  Figure the average character can make 2.5million a day running missions,  That means 3600 people would have run a days worth of hauling missions every week. or 514 people running a hauling mission every day.  And this is also assuming these people running hauling missions then spend that on ore people are selling on the market. 

     

    Oh sure its going to be great fun for those that run missions for themself to take care of all there quanta needs. And it will be profitable for those running missions to buy ore off the market at a reduced rate. But there are going to be allot more players that dont want to do hauling missions and players that dont want to sell ore at 15 to bots that then decide to leave the game. Less players means the market will get worse over time since less players are involved.

     

    Basically short term. keeping bots out of the market will be great. Long term,  it will drive players away from the game, which will hurt the market way more then a couple people having billions of quanta. 

  10. 37 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

    That said, scrap missions which are really exploited ;)

    Missions dont add as much server load and 1,000 players calibrating.  Much better to have players idle for 6 hours floating thru space not pushing any buttons then to have them constantly clicking MU's for calibrations. 

  11. There is what 103 markets in  the world. With every market buying 10,000,000L of ore at 25. If all those orders where satisfied. that would instill 103,000,000,000 quanta into the game.  Now there is about 25,000 claimed tiles that are not on haven or sanctuary, now some of those are going to be HQ tiles so no taxes paid. Say ~18,000 are paying taxes.  Meaning 9,000,000,000 quanta is leaving the game every week due to taxes.  Meaning 10 weeks and the game should run out of money to pay for tiles.  Granted, stuff like the space mission and hauling missions and daily login still bring quanta into the game. So its not like its going to collapse in 10 weeks.  But at the same time T1 bot orders are not going to destroy the economy.  We have not even considered schematic costs and market costs that also remove quanta from the game. 

     

    Its not a doomsday if 1 player has 100,000,000,000 in there account. But it is a doomsday if 90% of the player base only has 100,000 quanta every day. 

  12. 25 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

     

    It is very much a real problem.  You're looking at the quantification of the maths without the context of what the numbers represent.  A mass-transfer of wealth caused by a conglomeration of poor design and bugs not caught during the prior years of development could be the final nail in the coffin for DU.

    Except its not a mass transfer of wealth. Where talking about transfering $25 Million in quanta for quartz.  Under $1 million for Coal.  Bauxite a tad less then Quartz and Hematite a bit less then that.   So between all the ores, someone could make a one time money transfer of ~100 Million quanta.  And its probably going to be several someones. These are small numbers.  There are ships being sold ingame for higher amounts then this.  This is a non issue. 

     

    Now if you want to talk about bot prices in general. Sure talk about that. But even that is not to far off. If every player that was selling T1 ore swaped out to hualing mission running, they would be bringing more quanta into the game then they currently are selling T1 to bots. 

  13. You guys are trying to create a solution to a non existent problem.  There is what ~5 million liters of quarts for sell at less then 24 quanta a L. With an average of about ~20 qunta a liter. So even if a player bought every single bit of it and resold it to the bots at 25. thats only a 5 quanta profit. So they would only be making 25 Million quanta for every bit of quartz that is being sold. 

     

    Stop worrying about how much quanta is in other peoples wallets and worry more about what you can do with how much quanta you have in your own wallet. 

  14. On 11/10/2022 at 11:02 AM, Kezzle said:

    Certainly, making HP (and/or Shield HP)  even partially dependent on mass alone is a sure way to nonsense as people gimmick ways of increasing mass...

    Dont have an issue with people gimmicking ways to increase mass. If people want to place a 1,000 steel columns in the center of there ship to increase mass, thus increasing shield HP while keeping a small cross section so be it.  But thats not necessarily going to be a better or best setup over a properly layered armored ship.  Because then people can actually design good looking competitive ships. 

  15. I have 0 interest in running missions to pay taxes/schematic costs. I have 0 interest in running my T1 out to jago  to pay my taxes/schematic costs, and even that would be short term. If they think mission runners are going to spend all that quanta in buying ore.. lulz.  Its getting pretty close to past time to refill the bot orders, heck I have even noticed less people are buying stuff on the market because they dont have the quanta to buy. 

  16. Cannons have the highest DPS by far, but very short range.  They have a good firing arc but require specific layout so guns can support each other.

    Lasers have 64% the DPS that cannons do. Have very good range, Good frontal firing arc with many layouts available. 

    Missiles have half the DPS that cannons do. Have poor range.  the best firing arc lets you place them in allot of supporting locations. 

    Railguns have a quarter the DPS that cannons do. Have the best range.  Poor firing arc requires specific layout to guns can support each other. 

    Should also note L is 2x damage of M, M is 2x Damage of S, S is 2x damage of xs Should also note the difference between max skills and no skills is about 250% (and really it higher then that with capacity handling). IE a max skilled S pilot will destroy a no skilled M pilot with same setup. 

     

    Before I go on lets talk about defense. weight kills.  IE the more armor you put on the slower you go. IE no armor generally means your faster and thus you can go in and out of combat. Thus shield only combat really stands out. More on this later. 

     

    So we know that cannons do the most damage by far. With everything being equal cannons should win every time. However the main downfall to cannons is the limited range.  You can offset this downfall with speed. If you can get inside firing range fast enough and outside you being hit back fast enough the low range of cannons does not matter. However this means that you need to keep a good speed. Thus S ship classes are favored here since you keep a light ship for good speeds. However a M class laser boat should beat a S class cannon boat with same skills so long as the M class is setup properly. And I think thats where allot of combat goes awry, So many ships are setup to look cool instead of function best.  And because that M class ship is going to be able to field such a heavier shield. its going to be hard for that S class to spend enough time to take out a proper M laser boat. And thats where L cores are needed to take out these M class ships.

     

    Now we go back to that whole defense thing. Because speed is so crucial. you end up with shield boats. And you can only have 1 shield per ship. So instead of having 1 ship with 2 gunner seats, your better off with 2 ships with 1 gunner seat each.  Thus you doubled your defense for the same firepower.  Its why I am a huge proponent of tying shield HP to armor HP. IE your shield HP is a multiple of your armor HP. It would solve this issue. 

     

    So I feel there is a rock paper scissors in DU. Its just flawed by the current shield system. Although the current Speed to mass changes have made S cores actually viable in combat now, and is probably one of the best changes for PVP since I can remember. 

  17.  Going to do a simple answer first so people dont have to read the wall of text.   Core Schematic Banks.  Thats the main thing that needs to be added. You put all the schematics into the core, Or even into a special container that we have to make. all the machines on the core can pull from that one bank. That would solve your main complaint.  Now onto the rest. 

     

     

    What schematics you putting into metalworks,  or electronics industry? Most glass machines, or 3d printers dont need it either. 

     

    Only 3 things need schematics: Pure, Product, Final item.  Everything in between, no schematics are needed.   I keep all the refiners in one location, all the smelters in one location. and all the chemical doing product in one location.  I generally keep a couple days stock in each. But the key is, if the light turns orange on one of these machines I have run out of schematics (could be ore) For the assemblers, I only put in the amount I want produced. 

     

    As far as talents for schematics, Only really interested in cost savings. Because at the end of the day. A single player can make enough schematics that a single player can harvest the amount of ore to run said factory.  And if your running a factory large enough to exceed a single players ability to make schematics, then you also have more characters harvesting ore, and those players too can make schematics. You just need to keep those Q's going 24/7.  And I think Quanta is more of an issue at that point.

     

    The no schematic system really hurt the market.  It was so bad that you would never buy anything on the market. I mean, why buy it when you could make it yourself. When they added schematics in, that fixed this issue. Because why setup a 500m quanta production line when you could buy the items you wanted instead for that kinda money.  The problem with that system is the rich got richer, and only the rich could afford to get into late game industry. 

     

    The current schematic system allow anyone equally to get into the industry game. No longer can a rich guy setup a 2 billion quanta factory and keep reaping rewards from that single investment. If anything it puts us back to the stage of if you want it produce it yourself. 

     

    If anything is broken in the industry system. Its skills for item production. There are 0 skills for industry beyond refining, smelting, ammo and intermediary products that make it more profitable. And while refining and smelting can be a high skill point Q. intermediary products are a quick train.  This all means once your train max skills for T1, you can produce any type of T1 no matter the type. IE if you have max skills for Basic engine, then you have max skills for basic guns. Same goes for Tier 2/3/4/5 stuff.  If they had seperate skills for S/M/L/XL engines, and seperate skills for S/M/L Adjustors, seperate skills for screens, guns........... That would actually allow people to specialize in industry.  As it is now, you can just pay someone to touch your refiners, and smelters and intermediary skills and be the best at producing anything.

     

    Now this all might change when they add in a power system for industry. Because then all the time savings skills that you get from industry skills will reduce the power draw on your factory since your not having to run it as often. 

     

  18. 2 hours ago, Shredder said:

    One slightly concerning comment that was made:  “we hope to only have to launch once” …….soooo there might be further wipes and launches?

     

    I'm pro a wipe for a clean launch, but only if it’s confirmed to be persistent after that point. 

    Why would they say this......... FFS.   He should be fired for saying such a stupid thing.  And the other two should be fired for not questioning what he said before the video was released. And anyone that does not realise how bad of a statement is should not be in a position of policy making. 

  19. Change Lithium to 4KG, 180 HP.  It keeps its same place on the board regarding defensiveness. But allows a non tanky light weight design allot of people have used. 

     

    Change Plastic to 10kg 725HP, 5% resistances. It keeps its same position on the board regarding defensiveness. But allows creative designs. 

     

    Swap stats for Aluminium and Carbon. Makes more sense that aluminium is the lighter of the two as more people use aluminium ships. This is more of QOL change and will have little effect on other aspects of the game.

     

    Change concrete, Brick, and marble to 4500HP and 150KG. This makes these materials better suited for building on static cores. And with that weight, pretty much not for dynamic cores. 

     

    Change sodium to 20kg, 900HP. same reasons as Lithium. 

     

     

×
×
  • Create New...