HangerHangar

With current mechanics it will be very difficult for "unsponsored" players to do much. Including both new players and returning players. it’s a big ask to get a new player into the equivalent of a 0.0 Corp in the month or two it takes them to empty their sanctuary claim, or a returning player in a day or two to return to a 0.0 equivalent Corp since their sanctuary claim is already emptied out. The game also lacks the permeable boarder that EVE has with a large green/yellow/red boarder, and Wormhole systems that increase those number of systems in both mass (number of exits)/randomness.

Except for sanctuary, and parts of Alioth (maybe just unclaimable areas, maybe whole planet, and maybe half of planet) are completely and utterly going away when territory control is implemented. And the expected time frame for that is about 6 months. starting at time 45 or so in the above video. (Times before that gets into some really interesting topics like new Luminescent Block colors being a cash shop item, talking about cosmetic items from backer packages and new items, and mentioning that there will be 0 terrain wipes now with new generation features focusing on the next system instead). It's pretty clear what the devs intentions are, and are even excited at the prospect of a small safezone boarder PvP combat.

There's a huge difference between: I can take enough precautions to make myself a target better off ignored, and it does not matter what precautions I take I just change my flavor.

I said outside of unreasonable action. I don't mean that as unreasonable action against game mechanics, I mean it as unreasonable action as an independent actor. I don't even really consider your example of picking off a shuttle all that unreasonable. That shuttle is still has enough cargo to carry a blueprint, especially around JITA with all the research/production alts in the area that could be looking to do something lazy like fly that blueprint on the alt. Even expo frigates are likely to be in a similar situation, since there are chances they could have gotten very lucky (though them getting taken down would need the person in them to take an unreasonable action like not travel fitting, or auto piloting)

It's safe for all purposes outside of either/both parties involved taking unreasonable action. (Yes someone hauling enough of something for a suicide ganker to likely come out ahead, is an unreasonable action on the part of the hauler and a reasonable one on the part of the ganker).

Might want to reread my post. I'm pretty in favor of our current large blue zone and it staying. New and Returning players need an interesting set of content choices to mess and play with, while they find/develop social contacts to play elsewhere. Fully expect that opinion to not matter at all though. _______________________ Even EVE has an utterly massive safe zone to mess with. Getting out of that safezone is also insanely permeable in the sense that to get to other less safe areas you have choices between multiple routes in normal space, the Thera wormhole, the highly connected Drifter wormholes, and traditional wormhole systems (That's before using external contacts for Cyno help or jump bridge help). If I wanted to as a solo player I can get to any "type" of space in about an hour (IE: any 0.0 space for exploration), and have multiple choices for how I would choose to get there. (my normal playstyle even relies on messing around in a corp like Signal Cartel for a month or two, while I see if people I know are doing anything interesting. Or finding a newbie WH corp to play with, since even if they burn themselves out it's a fun fire to be a part of).

Was covered here: the 45min area to the 55 min area. Essentially safe zones will remain completely unchanged until territory control is implemented. After which point "at best" all of Alioth remains safe "at worst" only district areas remain safe, the devs being unsure what the final mechanics will be. Though they're excited about the prospect of safezone boarder PvP. (EDIT: Estimated 6 months) Really seems kind of disappointing, the only real hook the game has is letting players see the scale the game actually operates at with the first flight and landing on another planet. Telling new and returning players to hang out on this blighted space called sanctuary until you find a "sponsor" to be able to play elsewhere seems pretty anti-pattern to me.

Right now PvP in this game will need to fight the perception of how PvP in the game works, to get enough people to bother to try it or bother to stick around after easy targets dry up.

EVE also has tons of ways to mitigate and control risk. The fact that something like Signal Cartel exists and thrives in EVE is proof enough of that (Wormhole/0.0 Corp that exists where players are not allowed to attack first, that also maintains some utterly beautiful tools for publicly mapping wormhole connections, and performs rescue ops as well). it’s pivotal that an MMO provides a chill space that is also interesting to play in. Whenever I return to EVE it’s usually returning to Signal Cartel for a month or two, and then during that time developing contacts/contacting people for where I want to go from there (have done everything from SOV F1 monkey, SOV logi, and enjoying the wild ride of joining a new WH Corp 3 times because they’re quite fun whether they succeed or fail). That’s only possible in a PvP MMO that has interesting green spaces, since if I needed to be “sponsored" by an EVE Corp from day one of rejoining (to do interesting content) I would not have bothered even download the client. The fact that there are supposedly EVE players here, and that there are EVE developers in NQ... should mean that this conversation is pointless, since it’s obvious interesting green zones should exist and be interesting. And the cramped, laggy, and buggy Sanctuary moons are so “bad" that the community almost universally tells players to not be there.

Considering how many ways devs plans have been interpreted, it’s pretty safe to say that no matter which course the devs take there will be angry noises. right now I think it’s safe to say that the game is following the Worlds Adrift path. Where the devs promise multiple play styles, actually provide for them for a short while, and then ultimately have a design where the only option that overrides all others is PvP. It even rhymes with the Worlds Adrift release where there are rumors of item duplication, old mechanics getting nerfed while leaving players that abused them with their gains, and the devs trying to hide behind obscurity to keep those massive abuses from being known to most players.

The cancel sub button isn’t part of your account on DUs website, it’s in One of the two/three xsolla emails you got for subbing. This game is already the sequel to Worlds Adrift. Complete with untested tech, item duplication bugs, and future safety nerfs when the devs don’t get the PvP engagement targets that they want.

The Alioth/Thades/Madis safe zones really shouldn’t drop. The actual hook of the game is a newbie seeing the scale of the game by managing to get into orbit, across a couple hundred SU of space, and to manage to land on another planet. and the current three newbie planets is a nice amount that offers some choice between "bioformed temperate"/"unnatural disaster desert"/"algae ice ball". ————— If anything the current PvP “vets" should be up in arms that current “PvP reward ores" have the same risk as newbie region “PvE reward ores”. Considering planets with the most interesting rewards should have some combination of atmospheric PvP or territory control. Along with the expected hoarding of those high end rewards when the “price of risk” for them are at the lowest they will ever be.

Wow PvP groupies derailed a thread that was supposed to be about macro level PvP mechanics, as different updates hit. To having a little spat about micro level ship optimization/balance, that fundamentally won’t change how opposing groups will interact with each other in any way. PvP builds will just VERY quickly find and adjust to a new meta, that interacts with all play styles the same way the current meta does. (Against other PvP groups they’ll have clone ships against each other, against non-specialized combat ships they still have major advantages). ————— OP is interested in seeing if the current safe zones will be changing and how. For instance we know most planets won’t be atmospheric safe zones eventually. We don’t know if Alioth/Thades /Madis will be changing. We also don’t know if territories claimed by players can enable the current weapons lock. Which fundamentally changes with how almost all groups will be interacting with the entire system. the op cares about how starter players will be interacting with the world, as PvP rules change. It’s hard enough for a new player to figure out how to get into orbit, and off sanctuary. Requiring both atmospheric radars + weapons, and space radar + weapons is a bit much. Considering the best thing the game has as bait/hook/sinker to get people in is getting newbies to experience the scale the game operates at by getting them to another planet on their own power. likewise there are also some really silly balance things to be asking like how laughably skewed downwards the price of “high end PvP reward ores” will be, considering they have the current risk treatment that PvE reward ores have ATM. And people are predictably hoarding those resources, while the risk for them are at the cheapest they ever will be.

The fundamental aspect that hooks people to the game is making it from the ground, into space, and then making it to another planet. If they disable the ability to experience that hook to the normal MMOer/Space Engineers/Factorio player, and have any mistakes be "internal" ones to learn from. They’ll lose pretty much all retention, except for people who join sponsored by an org day one. (Pretty much a suicide for the game when it comes to player retention). Essentially the worst idea is to have a safe zone smaller than 3 planets. Since that gives an option for your first newbie target. ————— I know I would not have bothered with the game if I could not set an objective at least as small as moving to another planet. And I sure as hell would not have bothered to be a newbie in a full loot region, on my first newbie goal.