Greviouss
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Posts posted by Greviouss
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and im almost sure that this was the devs intent when they broke up the tier 2 3 4 and 5 ores across planets,
creating a system that would force people to move things around for the production needs of other planets.
Theres alot of things the devs didnt predict, and theres alot of mechanics that dont work the way they did when alpha started making other mechanics not sustainable at all.
Like industry machines that work forever....
This T1 altering is not difficult to implement, and wouldnt require rewriting anything really...
It would be an easy fix that the devs could implement live without resetting anything major,
They would just change existing deposits to allowed deposit types and poof there you have itIt would be up to the players to then compensate for the missing ore types on each planet... plus thier onhand stores of eay type removed (which they have little to none cause theres no NEED for anything like that (... see the broken yet? )...
would be interesting to watch how we solve it sans reset honestly...
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10 minutes ago, Elitez said:
Why would you want to make it harder ? Remove T1 from all planets?
No. Didnt say anything like this.
I said :
Remove 1 random T1 from each safe zone planet
Remove 1-3 random T1 of each current pvp planet
Including the moons - excluding sancutary moons
Why? Simple.
Effort Vs Reward.
These other planets provide enriched expensive high end resources, and to settle there you have ZERO DRAWBACKS.
Theres Nothing other than PVP that prevents you me or anyone from producing the entire T1 production line and populating the entire planet and its markets with these t1 elements.
All with no need to move any ore outside of the ore you need for specialized production.
To me, thats generally broken.
What that says is heres the expensive stuff and all you have to do for it is have the biggest gun gang - with zero forethought on infrastructure or implementation of anything basic at all.
Just show up and heres T3, 4 and or 5 ore just cause your here.
NO DRAWBACKS AT ALL <-- thats dumb.
On top of that, this will generate a HUGE amount of job production for haulers and traders to move needed missing necessary for day to day materials from A to B.... which DU sorely lacks.
Yes alot of the Initial population would be on alioth and as able to the community would work towards expansion as opposed to here just do whatever
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29 minutes ago, Elitez said:
I am pretty sure we're moving forward with the Roadmap. The game is doing just fine and we have a full market. Whats done its been done. Missions, Asteroids and the other goodies are coming on later this year. This system is almost done. Things we've learned so far can be applied in the near future when 2nd System will kick in.
In a way or another i can agree with what you've said but those settings are only good if the population of DU in the future, 1y from now will be healthy, big enough to support more agressive planets, more harsh environments and more Zero to Hero and Viceversa scenarios.
Lets remember one thing...most of the players when they are wiped, zeroed, they uninstall and leave the game and that can happen if a game becomes too hostile.Sure... players leave, for alot of reasons. As for whats to come, i think your missing the scale of the devs plans for expanding the universe, and any portion that might be engaging on that would b based off of the established foundations of the economy and general state and ruleset of the worlds in the universe when the game actually goes live and comes out of Beta. (which might receive a wipe)
But with your logic of "alpha was 6 months ago take your ideas there cause you missed your chance".. in the IDEA BOX THREAD
Really?
If you want that mindset fine, it in itself is toxic but your welcome to think it.
BUT take it and post it to every thread in the box if your gonna post it anywhere.
Not just here.
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3 minutes ago, Greviouss said:
ive really read it 30 times and i cannot clearly understand the implied NQ reasoning and intent
Not that NQ themselves have been any clearer in explaining why.
Maybe they just dont think its ready yet? -
On 1/22/2021 at 4:11 PM, blazemonger said:
True and for good reason. Thing is, NQ knows all this and still, they make all the mistakes they should no have because they have examples that show what is the best course of action.
I cannot decypher the NQ intent portion of it lol
what i see is :
NQ knows their wrong,
NQ knows this is the right thing to do ,
NQ isn't doing because?... they know that its right?
I think?
or
NQ isn't doing because?... they know there's several successful prior universe examples that show that its right course of action?
ive really read it 30 times and i cannot clearly understand the implied NQ reasoning and intent
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20 hours ago, Elitez said:
As an Alpha tester i think you had the proper environment to ask for changes. We're like close to 6 months in Development
Thank you for your constructive feedback on the subject and not a random 2 cents of garbage that's barely a coherent sentence.
The point of reopening this thread i believe was for ideas to b brought forth?
So I do thank you for your on topic and invaluable input on the actual subject at hand.
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this would answer all the parking at market and clutter issues
i agree with your map updates, those would b nice
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this solves the parking problem without redesigning the universe
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having said that the problem i see is the way that they have already implemented fuel in almost a comical weighted /consumption fashion...
that the same people will be responsible for defining the numbers behind this.
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On 11/25/2020 at 10:58 PM, blazemonger said:
- Limit what can be placed on a construct depending on power capacity
This will b the major impact to the existing game
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also warlander, i dont think you understand how voxels work. atleast not when it comes to the storing of and whatnot.
I dont have the best computer ever, but its ok, and i dont have your problem.
What i have noticed, is that people with lower powered systems especially lower end video cards will get the error messages while mining or doing terrain work, and thats cause those lower end machines pass off hardware baked tasks to software, which takes longer to process, and the changes to the environment locally dont or cannot occur right away seeing a difference in what is and what should be, thus requiring the player to wait between actions.
so.. maybe im wrong but im guessing strongly, its not the server, its likely you..... -
On 1/19/2021 at 2:05 PM, Warlander said:
Its as I say elsewhere that mining is the root of all evils in this game and the major cause of imbalance. My guess is by the time they did their first initial world generation that by the time they came back around to improve mining since its basically as stock of a system as you can get they realized that they could not change mining. Since every system down the line is impacted by it and you cant change any system sepperately that does not lead right back to mining.
But as time goes on they will need a supplimental system in order to keep mining viable as a profession once all the juice tiles and payday mines are gone. None or all of it can be phased in when that starts to happen but it will be necessary at some point when 4-12kl nodes end up being all thats left with the remainder of the ore being scattered by many km between nodes and still justify what happens to the millions of tunnels that crisscross all planets. At some point they are going to need to spawn content and alternatives to node mining to go back down there. Haveing 1-250l rocks is like 1 avg grab and stopping to harvest larger versions of surface rocks wont break the game if the spawn rates are done well.
ive toyed with this idea as well, what if ore nodes produced like 1billion fold of thier current ore, and weight of said ore was equally increased.
Waltzing through a whole hex worth of nodes of ore and leaving behind ultimaely a desolate husk of a hex takes a solid team of 6-10 dedicated skilled miners about a day...im not sure whats gonna power pvp with land providing materials as a driving force if theres nothing of value to be had in the land hexes... cause by the time land pvp comes, the ore in any major rural area will be gone for KM all around.
we dont need to mine up the whole deposit we do that cause were greedy little gamers
and DU did a good job of teaching you early on before you got a stable supply of containers that you might not want to just mine up all the ore cause then you cant carry it.
I thought that was a interesting mechanic that would play into the game somehow but not really cause now its link yourself to 8 XL Expanded containers on a hub and empty the mega node so you can sell it to the computer...
if extracting the entire node took a month or more then there would be some long term sustanibility that i could see in it, but with the existing iteration of minecraft style mechanics i do not see that occuring.
Torch everything and start new
Hire an economist
Rebalance the ore yields, think of the real world, theres a copper deposit in Michigan thats been excavated by man for like 3000 years now... atleast... and its still got ALOT more copper in it
rebalance the cost of ... everything...
remove some base ores from outer planets, to encourage measured and predictable growth
force the community to grow outward from alioth and not just blah like a virus on a sneeze at the theater
Place value on existing ore deposits being long term fixtures instead of making them vapor bits and encourage a community growth pattern thats outward and not randomDo these things and you will start to get some interesting gameplay that arises and less people being bored cause its all too pointless and easy.
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implement a list display option for inventory contents.
Not much else to that, the argument is easily justified by the demand for a more functional inventory.
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Prints are a good idea, but the current iteration of implementing them in industry is a bit tedious.
Id think that if NQ were to move the print bank to the core for the construct, and then you can go to the core and put in as many of the prints as you want to have in that building
Then at the industrial unit itself you can select from a list of available recipes instead of the current iteration in which each machine has its own bank, that is unnecessarily tedious.
This makes for altering industry as a whole much more streamlined say if you wanted to alter the production chain of a building, or decommission a series of industrial machines etc.
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Do you have a hard time landing at a marketplace because people leave their crap laying everywhere?
Yes you do, I do, NQ Definitely does.
I present the solution : Parking Meters.
Parking Meters would be a window popup that lets you buy time in blocks of an hour max and after that your construct gets "towed" into impound space.This window can appear say.. 10 -15 minutes after a person lands a ship on the market platform. When it appears, you pay for up to 1 hour. At the end of that hour a window appears again.
You should get a few minutes (5?) to acknowledge the window before it defaults you as in violation, and tows your construct.
This would let people who are around and active use this and if they fail to pay the meter cause they logged off or went away then their constructs are gone too within a reasonable timeframe.
Your saying ok Grev, what stops one person from docking multiple constructs and just using one alt to pay the meters?
Well thats easy.. You add a compound multiplier per construct per hour per org / person / etc... to ensure one person isn't paying this for multiple constructs indefinitely
This would be very easily implemented and force people off the platforms at the least if they want to display their "market carts", they can do this in the player markets that would spring up around the main hubs,
or the devs could add this parking meter to the whole hex...
- fiddlybits and fourteen
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JC you and NQ have made a wonderful virtual world.
You are great programmers and us lesser programmers are in awe and aspire to be like you.
JC you and NQ are not economists, your programmers.
Stop beating the market with your programmer hammers and hire an economist already.Theres no shame in doing this.
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On 1/22/2021 at 8:20 PM, Haku0814 said:
I'm a fringe world, and no matter what I do, majority of the population ingame is still on alioth. I still have to warp goods out to sell them no matter what I do. Due to the markets being so active on Alioth, I still have to go there to get other resources if I don't want to goto another planet and setup an outpost. Seems that doesn't need balancing just yet. IMO
Yea sure i know, but the very problem is exactly that, and perfectly illustrated in your statement. You are out there producing, and created a factory with ease.
And others are way out there doing their own thing, and everyone can go anywhere with ZERO forethought on material logistics etc and that makes for madness.
Moving should require planning not just "we want to exist here because we do"Sure you need non base materials. But thats circumstantial in production preferences. nothing stops you from populating every market in your planet with t1 everything.
Thats broken.
Living in certain areas over others shouldnt be a base experience we all share, and definately shouldnt be an experience thats as easy as living on Alioth.
For example, if we go to mars in the real world, we need to PLAN FOR OXYGEN AND FOOD in advance among other things, no DU does not have these concepts, but it does have ore, and with manipulation of the ore resources you can easily create a scenario that requires people to plan out moving to the great far out.They will do it, even if it was ridiculously hard, (which it shouldnt be too hard overall on implementation) and there would be no problem in the economy overall as people would work out from the center at a predictable pace as opposed to just existing wherever because there's rare ore or they like the color of the sand. You should have a difficulty modifier applied for that far out place that counters the Rare ore bonus provided for living out there.
When the Planetary pvp comes its gonna be giant groups who have not only everything they need cause they own the T5 producing planets completely and dont need anything brought in in masse, but who own the entire exotics and T5 market cause they have ZERO problems holding just the t5 planets in totality with no need for anything external ever.
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21 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
Also CCP actively and aggressively protects and manages their in game economy as they understand that it is the backbone and core of the game. DU is entirely clueless of this and just keeps stacking blunder on blunder while allow the rich and able to get richer and more able and at he same time are pretty much locking out the rest of what is left of a player base.
CCP hired a real economist to fine tune and maintain theirs after its initial implementation.
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Currently every planet has all the base ores available out there.
Thats nominally broken in my view.This allows anyone to go anywhere and mine up the material to just pull off whatever without regard to transporting materials or the need for basic trade,
and without any regard to scaling difficulties of the distant planets.
Basically anyone can just go to any planet and make an empire with out any concern for logistics involved in getting materials out to a planet and setting it up, <-- this is an afterthought for more expensive materials as a primary focus and that, is broken.
So i see a problem, what do i see as a solution?
Sure thats easy.
Alioth should be the only planet (and maybe its moons) to contain all 4 tier 1 materials.
All other moons and planets in the safe zone should be lacking ONE tier one material at random.
All planets in PVP and non safe zone areas should have 1-4 tier 1 materials removed from thier ore resource spawn tables.
What would this do?
This would force people to plan out their mass exoduses to the various planets by ensuring they can deliver the necessary materials, then fund additional logistics with time and effort to ensure that a supply of these basic materials that are missing are coming into the planet in question. The farther out you are the harder this can be, and that would be semi realistic. This would also normalize the expansion rate of people outward from alioth as a whole I think as they would be limited by the efforts of what they could achieve in logistics. Many could stand to make tons with the shipping of these materials to the lacking planets.
Prove me wrong ?
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What does eve have that makes it engaging and alive in a way that DU - AS GOOD OF A GAME AS IT IS - is lacking?
Lets examine the two and see for a second:
General premise :
Eve online exists as a player driven world where all the things that occur in the world are player driven.
Does DU have this? : YesWorld :
While not fully owned and operated the vast amount of space in eve is player owned. even in high sec in eve players can control traffic and transport of goods while providing assistance etc to those around them. Yea the npc owns the safe haven stations, and exists in various parts of the universe as npc ships that engage the player with a multitude of things including and not limited to :
a common go get em task both solo and group that powers thier walletsprovides excitement without forcing pvp on anyone specifically
provides a few different types of mission structures,
helps balance the economy providing various sinks and faucets,
provides elements for industry both basic and advanced,
gives a sense of player stature as u work through waves of them and survive,
and also provides a source to drive universe level story content off of.Does DU have this? : No.
As I understand this DU is going the route of If it exists and :
if it moves : its a player.
if its not a planet : its a player or something built by a player.
and while this is a great approach, can i point out the multitude of things that providing a base NPC element to the game can easily provide routes for fixing some holes up in the economy, and in the general gameplay loops for everyone. If say each hex spawned a set number of roaming mindless npc animal types that we could just aim and go pew at.. we would initially be elated at running and shooting the thingz for the things.. hundreds of recipes and items can be generated off of sci fi biological material, bounties to collect npc elements from other planets at terminals, food sources, storyline elements, sinks, and faucets, rare items.. and as many more things as you can imagine can go in to that over time just by it existing
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Currently industrial machines on a non pvp intended landscape have an infinite lifespan.
This means that the market for them is only as viable as peoples lack of ownership in them and nothing else, once u get one u have it forever and that... that is unsustainably broken.
Id think that a 6-10 week operational lifespan, with machines throwing random errors after thier lifespan stopping production, and requiring either consistent repair or just flat out replacement.This will create a sustainable market for industrial machines ... i think.
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you can do alot with this if it still exists
i used it to program all the boxes contents in my databanks using the old industry model (pre schematics)
with the core element iteration i could tell what boxes contained what with a bit of pre structuring on the entire construct
and then relay that to various screens displaying what the box contents and how full it was
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1 hour ago, dmitrynest said:
I think you need something like the one in the picture below (link).
- The game needs to add vertical veins underground. Just above such veins, you need to install a static structure (automatic earner).
- The miner can be connected to the container.
- The miner needs cartridges (which will be spent during work, as the drill sinks deeper and deeper). Cartridges are special pipes (supports). When placing the building in inventory - cartridges are returned separately.
- You can install an item in a building (there is a slot for this), a slot for a drill. Boers are different and are suitable for certain ores. Boers wear out over time.
- Add the skill of improving the mining of the earner.
- The drill can go deep enough.
- Yes, you can make a vein that is not wasted. But will it be realistic? And wouldn't that ruin the balance?- I agree. Such a building must be expensive.
kinda what i was thinking yea
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to clarify i think some source of ore, possibly non minable by hand, or not even visible to the player,
will likely end up existing in individual hexes, possibly below the max dig depth line ...
these "ore" materials will require i believe an element / fixture that is complex and expensive to buildand requires being placed on a static construct
and supports a direct down non planet material destructive digging footprint. (ie it digs and mines without actually digging)
disagree with this sure please do, but then tell me :
your interpretation of exactly what an automated mining unit would be good for on hexes with no materialsand then follow that up with what the driving force for conflict will be after materials are exhausted from a hex or worse an entire area of hexes
DU Improvements
in Idea Box
Posted
The point is to keep the market platform clear of inactive constructs,
and im sure that if you dont physically ping for presence people will abuse it,
and if you give them a 2 week grace period they will just swap in a new alt every 2 weeks.
besides, I dont get a leeway on parking rights or fees when i visit or move to a new city for a few weeks... do you?
if someone new is learning to build a speeder, one of the first things they will learn is - probably dont do it on the market platform if its gonna take 6 hours
but that said, the inital parking fee for one person to stand around for an hour should not be that expensive, its when u start compounding time and constructs together that
that price starts to jump up, 1 hour == 10k Q with a compound per hour at ((((hours * 10k) * hours) * core size multiplier) * 2.5 per construct over 1) (including sub docked constructs)
a new player building a speeder should not have a financial issue with this since they start with 350k (200 inital and 150k daily) injection of funds.
to beat the manipulation of nano magic space transportation - put in a vendor node that you can recover your ship that was towed at that market -
and if you dont tow them away then how does this even remotely keep the platform clear?
and if you dont ping for an active person (ensuring its not someone sleeping with 20 alts standing around) how do you know thier active.
Keep in mind this is supposed to b annoying, and yea 15 minutes sure too short of an iteration, i didnt intend for it to sound like 15 minute iterations,
but after that first 15 minutes, you get the window and can add... 30 mins, 1 hour max to your time.
Cause again, the idea is to keep the platforms clear.
If your not there, or not actively doing something there then your on the platform and do not need to be.
If people want to make thier own custom market places, do it around the market
theres plenty of equidistant room around the edges of the marketplace for people to set themselves up (not under the marketplace as that should also be a parking meter area)