Poliwopper

hello, i'm a big player with thousands of hours on DU already since the beta started. We have one of the prettiest bases in the game (Spaceboys) on Sanctuary, very well developed.
I ask for a general WIPE and without BP magic. A new start on the basis of the original 0.23 with Sanctuary as the only safe place as promised at the start.
No more ships with 30 wings, pvp everywhere except sanctuary.
breaks elements whatever the conditions (PVE / PVP / crash etc)
here
 
 
bonjour, je suis un gros joueurs avec deja des milliers d heures sur DU depuis le lancement de la beta. Nous avons une des plus jolie base du jeu (Spaceboys) sur Sanctuary, tres bine dévelloppé.
Je demande un WIPE générale et sans BP magic. Un nouveau départ sur les base de la 0.23 originale avec Sanctuary comme seul lieu safe comme promis au départ.
Pas de ships avec 30 wings, pvp partout sauf sanctuary.
casse des éléments quel que soient les conditions (PVE / PVP / crash etc)
voilà

I haven't played for awhile because the core features are extremely unsettled and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on a project only to have the core gameplay change. But it's Beta.... it is what it is. That's just the stage of the game.
 
The core issue with DU, though, is in my opinion that it must choose between being a building-with-friends game and a game that people play who enjoy challenging progression. It feels like it tries to be both, which I do not believe is possible.
As someone who enjoys progression, I played a lot of DU but simply ran out of things to do. Everything is far, far too easy to get. I don't have an issue with the *amount* of content, for a Beta game... But the ease with which you can get to late-game content really seems bad.
 
Some players want to play more or less in creative mode, and if NQ adds 10x the content depth those players will want everything to be 10x easier. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to enjoy and a reasonable game to make, and it looks to me like the direction DU is going.
 
Other players (like myself) prefer to struggle, to need to work at progress, to lose ground every now and then. To fight for resources, to team up for protection. Doing this, after some *years* of playing, it should be possible to reach late-game toys.
 
It looks to me like DU will never be satisfying for players like me, at least not for long. Prioritization decisions made - leaving PvP for last, the balance of resources in the game, the ease of crafting, the balance of recipes, etc. - have cast this die already.
 
But I hope that NQ does not continue to try to straddle both gameplay styles, because that cannot be done. You cannot have creative mode on one or two planets and challenging progression gameplay on another. Whichever style of gameplay DU will be, it needs to be a choice and it needs to be baked deep into the design of the game.

The definition of a 'beta' has dramatically shifted over the past 15 years - at least in the gaming world - the definition  remains:
A Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs.  
15 years ago an MMO beta was a largely finished game. Maybe some end game content missing, some placeholder assets, a few quests unfinished, balance issues and so on...
 
But you'd get a full vertical slice of the game. Meaning - every single core feature of the game was functional. For example, Anarchy Online went into beta in 2000 and released in 2001. By the time it was beta, the bulk of the game was done - it was buggy, unbalanced and riddled with exploits - but the content was there. 
 
Now you have DU 'beta' - and core features of the game are actually non existent entirely and those that exist are all dysfunctional in some way. There isn't a single thing in the game right now that I would consider ready for release. 
 
DU is by no means a 'beta' in a traditional definition - there is no justification for calling any product that is missing fundamental core features a 'beta'. By definition beta is feature complete, but buggy. DU is at best Alpha. It doesn't matter what NQ choose to call it - it's Alpha. By definition.
 
So that's why people are complaining. You can't really sell DU as a 'beta' and have so many features not just 'not developed' - but apparently still in the drawing board stages. 
 
All the interviews with JC and the rest of NQ staff have been pretty indicative that they do not have any idea how atmo pvp will actually work, how avatar pvp will work or how territory control pvp will work - I don't mean that they don't have it in game - I mean that they appear to have no idea how it will work at all besides theory crafting how they 'envision' it. It's gotten no further than what JC was talking about during the kickstarter in 2016.
 
Anyone with any history in development looking at just the planned features on https://upvote.dualuniverse.game/ sees a solid 2 years of work. When those are complete, assuming DU doesn't go the way of Worlds Adrift - then the game will be in Beta - meaning another year of polish to iron out the bugs.
 
So players have every right to be upset about how incomplete this beta is. 
 
With that said - the harsh reality of life is that games are not developed for free. Given the staff levels and funding, and expected burn rate, it's extremely likely that the decision to launch Alpha in the current state was to create some kind of cashflow - even if only to further use that cashflow to secure loans and investments for future development. I do not blame NQ for launching the 'beta' as is, or for charging for it, AWS doesn't host their servers out of charity and NQ devs do not pay their rent with their passion for game development.  
 
I do think that the bulk of the community gets that point as well - but are still disappointed by the current state of the game. 
 
That's exactly where I am. I am disappointed by DU.  I kickstarted, and have 2 paid accounts on top of my 2 pre-paid ones, and will keep the subs going because despite the fact that the game isn't in the state where I want it to be - I realize that it will never get to a state that I want it to be in without continued cashflow. On the other hand I can understand why someone may not wish to pay monthly for a game they don't even log into anymore....

I haven't played for awhile because the core features are extremely unsettled and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on a project only to have the core gameplay change. But it's Beta.... it is what it is. That's just the stage of the game.
 
The core issue with DU, though, is in my opinion that it must choose between being a building-with-friends game and a game that people play who enjoy challenging progression. It feels like it tries to be both, which I do not believe is possible.
As someone who enjoys progression, I played a lot of DU but simply ran out of things to do. Everything is far, far too easy to get. I don't have an issue with the *amount* of content, for a Beta game... But the ease with which you can get to late-game content really seems bad.
 
Some players want to play more or less in creative mode, and if NQ adds 10x the content depth those players will want everything to be 10x easier. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to enjoy and a reasonable game to make, and it looks to me like the direction DU is going.
 
Other players (like myself) prefer to struggle, to need to work at progress, to lose ground every now and then. To fight for resources, to team up for protection. Doing this, after some *years* of playing, it should be possible to reach late-game toys.
 
It looks to me like DU will never be satisfying for players like me, at least not for long. Prioritization decisions made - leaving PvP for last, the balance of resources in the game, the ease of crafting, the balance of recipes, etc. - have cast this die already.
 
But I hope that NQ does not continue to try to straddle both gameplay styles, because that cannot be done. You cannot have creative mode on one or two planets and challenging progression gameplay on another. Whichever style of gameplay DU will be, it needs to be a choice and it needs to be baked deep into the design of the game.

I haven't played for awhile because the core features are extremely unsettled and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on a project only to have the core gameplay change. But it's Beta.... it is what it is. That's just the stage of the game.
 
The core issue with DU, though, is in my opinion that it must choose between being a building-with-friends game and a game that people play who enjoy challenging progression. It feels like it tries to be both, which I do not believe is possible.
As someone who enjoys progression, I played a lot of DU but simply ran out of things to do. Everything is far, far too easy to get. I don't have an issue with the *amount* of content, for a Beta game... But the ease with which you can get to late-game content really seems bad.
 
Some players want to play more or less in creative mode, and if NQ adds 10x the content depth those players will want everything to be 10x easier. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to enjoy and a reasonable game to make, and it looks to me like the direction DU is going.
 
Other players (like myself) prefer to struggle, to need to work at progress, to lose ground every now and then. To fight for resources, to team up for protection. Doing this, after some *years* of playing, it should be possible to reach late-game toys.
 
It looks to me like DU will never be satisfying for players like me, at least not for long. Prioritization decisions made - leaving PvP for last, the balance of resources in the game, the ease of crafting, the balance of recipes, etc. - have cast this die already.
 
But I hope that NQ does not continue to try to straddle both gameplay styles, because that cannot be done. You cannot have creative mode on one or two planets and challenging progression gameplay on another. Whichever style of gameplay DU will be, it needs to be a choice and it needs to be baked deep into the design of the game.

I haven't played for awhile because the core features are extremely unsettled and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on a project only to have the core gameplay change. But it's Beta.... it is what it is. That's just the stage of the game.
 
The core issue with DU, though, is in my opinion that it must choose between being a building-with-friends game and a game that people play who enjoy challenging progression. It feels like it tries to be both, which I do not believe is possible.
As someone who enjoys progression, I played a lot of DU but simply ran out of things to do. Everything is far, far too easy to get. I don't have an issue with the *amount* of content, for a Beta game... But the ease with which you can get to late-game content really seems bad.
 
Some players want to play more or less in creative mode, and if NQ adds 10x the content depth those players will want everything to be 10x easier. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to enjoy and a reasonable game to make, and it looks to me like the direction DU is going.
 
Other players (like myself) prefer to struggle, to need to work at progress, to lose ground every now and then. To fight for resources, to team up for protection. Doing this, after some *years* of playing, it should be possible to reach late-game toys.
 
It looks to me like DU will never be satisfying for players like me, at least not for long. Prioritization decisions made - leaving PvP for last, the balance of resources in the game, the ease of crafting, the balance of recipes, etc. - have cast this die already.
 
But I hope that NQ does not continue to try to straddle both gameplay styles, because that cannot be done. You cannot have creative mode on one or two planets and challenging progression gameplay on another. Whichever style of gameplay DU will be, it needs to be a choice and it needs to be baked deep into the design of the game.

I haven't played for awhile because the core features are extremely unsettled and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on a project only to have the core gameplay change. But it's Beta.... it is what it is. That's just the stage of the game.
 
The core issue with DU, though, is in my opinion that it must choose between being a building-with-friends game and a game that people play who enjoy challenging progression. It feels like it tries to be both, which I do not believe is possible.
As someone who enjoys progression, I played a lot of DU but simply ran out of things to do. Everything is far, far too easy to get. I don't have an issue with the *amount* of content, for a Beta game... But the ease with which you can get to late-game content really seems bad.
 
Some players want to play more or less in creative mode, and if NQ adds 10x the content depth those players will want everything to be 10x easier. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to enjoy and a reasonable game to make, and it looks to me like the direction DU is going.
 
Other players (like myself) prefer to struggle, to need to work at progress, to lose ground every now and then. To fight for resources, to team up for protection. Doing this, after some *years* of playing, it should be possible to reach late-game toys.
 
It looks to me like DU will never be satisfying for players like me, at least not for long. Prioritization decisions made - leaving PvP for last, the balance of resources in the game, the ease of crafting, the balance of recipes, etc. - have cast this die already.
 
But I hope that NQ does not continue to try to straddle both gameplay styles, because that cannot be done. You cannot have creative mode on one or two planets and challenging progression gameplay on another. Whichever style of gameplay DU will be, it needs to be a choice and it needs to be baked deep into the design of the game.

The devs are continually under estimating players, this time they did not even expect them to hit 'B' .

This is why this game needs pervasive PvP. This kind of theft should very much be a part of the game... and Vifrevaert should now be on everyone's KOS list.

With the current 100% repair rate, PVP will not be the resource sink the game needs. Instead, when territory warfare begins, it will insure that the groups who win in the beginning will gain a materials advantage that will only grow with each new, easier, win.  
 
I made the suggestion that elements damaged by weapons have a less than 100% repair chance and submitted it to the voting list. It never got moderator approval in spite of there being no similar suggestions.  I thought my suggestion might have been overlooked or worded incorrectly so I rephrased the suggestion and submitted again. This time it was simply deleted. 
 
Now I am very worried. Is the current repair system meant to stay as it is?  If so, the game will not be worth playing shortly after territory warfare and atmospheric PVP are introduced. A few groups will dominate and only grow stronger in relation to everyone else. 

This is why this game needs pervasive PvP. This kind of theft should very much be a part of the game... and Vifrevaert should now be on everyone's KOS list.

Be careful what you wish for - or at least what you think is necessary: a wipe itself isn't a solution - it will just upset lots of players which have put many hours into the development of their base(s).
You may find a solution with which most of us can live with, and I'm quite confident that's the path NQ will aim for...

I think there is a big difference between playing solo (completely self sufficient) and playing solo but still being involved in civilisation.  It seems to me that the people who are having issues are those that was to be complete independent from civilisation, which is NOT what the game was advertised as.  WHY does the game need NPCs to give people things to do when there are hundreds of orgs out there looking to give people work.  Our orgs have loads of casual players earning millions from the VERY SPECIFIC roles quoted in that piece - Hauling, mining, building basis.  They work on a job basis (JUST LIKE NPCS MISSIONS).  I really do not understand what the difference is, why are you ok going to an NPC and getting a mission to haul something for xxx quanta but you wont do it for another player.

Also, just an idea, if you have to make LOADS of product (from you large industrial machine) then make it, use what you need AND SELL THE REST to other players on the market...........

I think the markets will be liquid on most planets, particularly due to the market bots, but let's suppose I (a potential customer of your bank) want to take the ore I mined on Jago to Alioth and sell it there, due to price differences.
 
If I (and other customers) can put ore in your bank in Jago and withdraw it on Alioth, you're going to need to be moving ore from your Jago branch to your Alioth branch, or buying ore on Alioth and selling it on Jago. In other words you will be losing the Jago/Alioth ore value spread! That would be a great deal for the customer but not a sustainable business model for the bank from what I can tell.
 
It kind of sounds like what you're describing is a trading scheme where you buy ores on other planets and sell them on Alioth. That could make a lot of sense (although it depends on the spreads the market bots give for ores I suppose, since you have to beat their prices). I, a miner on Jago, don't necessarily have the equipment to transport ore safely to Alioth to sell. You could invest in a nice ship and then reap the rewards by making safe trading trips between planets.

This is a very interesting idea, I have some questions...
 
This seems a little bit like trading, with Extra Steps?
 
I can envision several use cases for customers (enumerated below) but am struggling to see how this will fit the customer needs. I have only just discovered DU so if I am misunderstanding any mechanics, please correct me.
 
First, I will assume the markets in the ores in question are liquid (buy/sell spread is small, enough buy/sell orders that trading is easy).
1. Let's say I, a potential customer, have just mined a bunch of ore but will not be using it immediately, for one reason or another. I could deposit it in your bank, collect some collateral (I assume this would be in Quanta? in any case, not equal to 100% of the value of the ore) and incur the fees. Or, I could instead sell the ore and pocket the Quanta in my completely secure wallet. I would be risking that the value of ore would change over time, but in return I would not be exposed to any risk from the bank (which I believe others in the thread of outlined), I would not pay bank fees, and I would have the ability to use the Quanta in the intervening period as I saw fit. Once I needed the ore, I would simply buy it from the (liquid) market.
2. On the other hand, maybe I want ore transferred from where I mined it to where I will be using it. I could deposit it in your bank, travel without risk of it getting stolen from me, and then withdraw from another branch. This seems like a good deal for the customer. But if there is aggregate mismatch in supply and demand in these locations, the bank will wind up transporting ore around. And it will not cost me extra to withdraw it in a high-demand location compared to a low-demand location. On the other hand, if I simply sell the ore where I mined it, and then purchase it where I need to use it, any aggregate mismatch in supply and demand should induce a price discrepancy that would incentivize traders to meet the demand. They would be transporting the same amount of ore (in aggregate) as the bank, but without a good deal of the overhead.
 
Things look a little different if we contemplate items with illiquid markets.
1. The first use case is more of a storage facility service. This seems to pretty well match one branch of what you envision building.
2. The second use case is something of a secure courier service. I can certainly see a demand for this too.
 
As others have mentioned, banks may have evolved from institutions that seem similar to what you are describing, but modern banks are redistributors of capital. Mimicing the function of modern banks in DU would be an interesting proposition to try, though I'm a little doubtful it can work in a universe with a fixed amount of currency. I think we're more likely to see redistribution in the downward direction in the form of wealth taxes.

This is a very interesting idea, I have some questions...
 
This seems a little bit like trading, with Extra Steps?
 
I can envision several use cases for customers (enumerated below) but am struggling to see how this will fit the customer needs. I have only just discovered DU so if I am misunderstanding any mechanics, please correct me.
 
First, I will assume the markets in the ores in question are liquid (buy/sell spread is small, enough buy/sell orders that trading is easy).
1. Let's say I, a potential customer, have just mined a bunch of ore but will not be using it immediately, for one reason or another. I could deposit it in your bank, collect some collateral (I assume this would be in Quanta? in any case, not equal to 100% of the value of the ore) and incur the fees. Or, I could instead sell the ore and pocket the Quanta in my completely secure wallet. I would be risking that the value of ore would change over time, but in return I would not be exposed to any risk from the bank (which I believe others in the thread of outlined), I would not pay bank fees, and I would have the ability to use the Quanta in the intervening period as I saw fit. Once I needed the ore, I would simply buy it from the (liquid) market.
2. On the other hand, maybe I want ore transferred from where I mined it to where I will be using it. I could deposit it in your bank, travel without risk of it getting stolen from me, and then withdraw from another branch. This seems like a good deal for the customer. But if there is aggregate mismatch in supply and demand in these locations, the bank will wind up transporting ore around. And it will not cost me extra to withdraw it in a high-demand location compared to a low-demand location. On the other hand, if I simply sell the ore where I mined it, and then purchase it where I need to use it, any aggregate mismatch in supply and demand should induce a price discrepancy that would incentivize traders to meet the demand. They would be transporting the same amount of ore (in aggregate) as the bank, but without a good deal of the overhead.
 
Things look a little different if we contemplate items with illiquid markets.
1. The first use case is more of a storage facility service. This seems to pretty well match one branch of what you envision building.
2. The second use case is something of a secure courier service. I can certainly see a demand for this too.
 
As others have mentioned, banks may have evolved from institutions that seem similar to what you are describing, but modern banks are redistributors of capital. Mimicing the function of modern banks in DU would be an interesting proposition to try, though I'm a little doubtful it can work in a universe with a fixed amount of currency. I think we're more likely to see redistribution in the downward direction in the form of wealth taxes.