devu

p2hf - pay to have fun
p2cu- pay to catch up
obydss-overpay because you did something stupid
obyal-overpay because you are lazy
bsaeig-be smart and earn in game
blsh-buy low sell high
 
Heck. nothing catchy so far. Anybody came up with some more acronyms of possibilities?
 
I actually hit like buttons on both sides of this spectrum because this is what it is for me. It's obvious how Visa works and as long as you can pay with it for in game goodies you can benefit. But as long as game provides equal opportunities and possibilities to earn in game there is always a chance it's a Visa Uber players that feeds a market but its them being ripped off by skilled players. Usually because they too lazy, ignorant, not skilled enough, because they can or simply... people playing for fun and want to catch up. 
 
I don't care about definitions. As long as there is no item shop that will put Visa guy ahead of me because there is some gear I will not be able to acquire any other way, most of people are happy with it. Sure, maybe more cash will give you more raw materials faster, you can employ some workforce etc. But at the same time, there is not guarantee for Visa player of success on any level here. I do agree however this should be transparent and obvious to anybody who making decisions.
 
And I believe DU will provide more opportunities for fair chances to everybody to compare to EVE. But there is no way to have a perfect solution. One have more cash another time on his hands. Both are precious commodities in MMO games. Period.
 
 

p2hf - pay to have fun
p2cu- pay to catch up
obydss-overpay because you did something stupid
obyal-overpay because you are lazy
bsaeig-be smart and earn in game
blsh-buy low sell high
 
Heck. nothing catchy so far. Anybody came up with some more acronyms of possibilities?
 
I actually hit like buttons on both sides of this spectrum because this is what it is for me. It's obvious how Visa works and as long as you can pay with it for in game goodies you can benefit. But as long as game provides equal opportunities and possibilities to earn in game there is always a chance it's a Visa Uber players that feeds a market but its them being ripped off by skilled players. Usually because they too lazy, ignorant, not skilled enough, because they can or simply... people playing for fun and want to catch up. 
 
I don't care about definitions. As long as there is no item shop that will put Visa guy ahead of me because there is some gear I will not be able to acquire any other way, most of people are happy with it. Sure, maybe more cash will give you more raw materials faster, you can employ some workforce etc. But at the same time, there is not guarantee for Visa player of success on any level here. I do agree however this should be transparent and obvious to anybody who making decisions.
 
And I believe DU will provide more opportunities for fair chances to everybody to compare to EVE. But there is no way to have a perfect solution. One have more cash another time on his hands. Both are precious commodities in MMO games. Period.
 
 

There will always be players that have more than you. Either by Buying DAC's or just by being online longer and having more experience. I think of it kinda like that guy that pays to get through courses... Lots of stuff but no experience or wisdom to use it effectively.  

Indeed, there is really no more need for this kind of discussion. NQ has pretty clearly laid out how they want to proceed with monetization, and even though they are borrowing from EVE's system, enough of DU is wildly different form EVE that I don't think this is really going to be an issue. Even at release, there is no way that the player population will be able to support players (plural) injecting $200 worth of DAC into the market at a time and still value the DAC highly as a commodity. We have no idea how much quanta will actually be floating around, or how easy it will be to get given that its introduction to the market will be carefully restricted. NPC's will not be a bottomless supply of money in DU, that makes it pretty much impossible to compare the two game's economies, especially since the DU economy hasn't formed yet.
 
Plus DU has to go through alpha AND beta before DAC's even exist in the economy. Whole versions of the game will be playable without the impact of DAC's whatsoever.
 
Given that Quanta will not be readily available, and that we don't really know what the capacity will be for the NPC traders to distribute quanta, I suspect that DAC's will likely be traded for raw or finished goods instead, or as payment for a fulfilled contract. *mostly* I suspect it'll boil down to DAC's being traded for time not spent mining/refining material. I suspect that the players that are willing to inject money into DAC's as a currency will be using it to "catch up" to players who have more free time, probably professionals and/or people with a family or other hobbies (like myself).
 
Now that being said, this has been discussed to death, but there isn't going to be a way to form a valid argument that the monetization scheme is somehow bad for players without any good data. DU is different enough from EVE that data from EVE is bad data.

No matter what people may want to pass as true, p2w is p2w and in context of this OP, yes p2w has a definition. From my experience people who will insist otherwise are just those who want to stretch what is p2w and what is not, in order to use p2w, without having to deal with the negative repercussions of it.
 
That said, p2w is not the same for all games though. So, while p2w can be defined as "one person or group of persons, gain(s) an advantage on other players by means of real money, who could not  equalize (in due time),", that is differently applied in different games. For example sandbox MMOs and theme parked MMOs are vastly different and as a result this same p2w definition will be applied differently.
 
So the question is, can the DAC be used, or rather abused, in a p2w way?
 
In order to answer that, and taking into account that DU isn't even in open pre-alpha yet, we will have to rely at EVE which is the game with which the best comparison can be made.
 
Currently you can buy from CCP 2800 PLEX for $100.
 
The current price for PLEX is 3 million ISK per PLEX.
 
This means that with the 2800 PLEX you can have 8,400,000,000 ISK.
 
Assuming that the average whale spends $200 per month that would mean that the average whale would get 16,800,000,000 ISK per month.
 
That means that in a year an average whale would make 201,600,000,000 ISK
 
Now If you have just 10 whales in the same guild/organization/alliance who are willing to spend that money (which are average for whales), then you get 2,016,000,000,000 ISK.
 
From what I am reading, during WWB at EVE, one alliance attacked another cause they were given 1 trillion ISK, also recently, the biggest heist at EVE happened with an estimated worth of 1.5 trillion ISK, which resulted in an alliance's dissolution.
 
Put that into perspective; 5 people can be preparing for war for the duration of a year and amass the necessary wealth to buy another guild's services, or alternatively, they can be 10 people for the duration of just 6 months. And exactly because this is being done in the passage of time, they will have more than enough time to sell these PLEXes.
 
It could be argued that the other/enemy alliance could just farm the same amount of ISK. Even if that is true, farming ISK is something that both guilds can do. As such the p2w guild doesn't have 2 trillion, it has 2 trillion more, and the only way for the other guild to equalize is for them to be willing to be in the PLEX market.
 
Someone may say that this is a exaggeration. I beg to differ. We all have read stories about EVE and how far people have gone at this game (see "metagame"). As such planning a war 6-12 months beforehand is nowhere near an exaggeration, in EVE's context. Alas even in my mind it is not an exaggeration, to plan for a conflict 6-12 months beforehand, if you exclude any p2w and "metagame" elements.
 
As such, EVE is pure p2w, plain and simple. And I haven't even touched the skill injectors yet, as these will not be at DU.
 
Now, is this scenario possible or at the very least plausible, at DU's case?
 
It looks more than plausible to me, hence measures need to be taken in order for this not to happen. In other words, NQ needs to work on a solution before launch. As they need to make crystal clear that this kind of gameplay behavior will not be acceptable. Unless it is acceptable. But NQ needs to make clear where they stand, in order for people to make an informed decision of whether to buy their game or not, and to know what game they are buying.

Zgadzam sie ze na polska kieszen te ceny wygladja kosmicznie, i nie ludzdzie sie ze Alpha/Beta to bedzie grywalna gra. Tutaj mamy do czynienia ze standardowym podejsciem, jak nalazy gry produkowac. Alpha/Beta to stany testowe. Poczytajcie sobie na wikipedii. Nie bede sie produkowal. Wiec jesli ktos chce wydac $120 tylko po to by pobudowac w Alpha i potestowac reszte w Beta z bugami... brzmi nie zbyt zachwycajaco. Beda resety swiata itd...
 
Ale zauwazcie jedna rzecz. Ze kupujac dostep do Alpha/Beta kupujecie DAC. Czyli cos co bedzie mialo wartosc pozniej. Czas gry w miesiacach. To wam nie zginie. To jest inwestycja w przyszlosc jesli tylko wierzysz w projekt. A DAC do wew waluty bedzie dyktowany zasadami rynkowymi wiec powiedzial bym ze kzady DAC kupiony przed premiera jest tani ;). Wiekszosz ludzi ma nadzieje ze wczesniejszy dostep da im mozliwosc zarobienia w grze.. ze ta wiedza da im headstart. 
 
Ciezko mi powiedziec na tym etapie, ale tez tak mysle. Zalozylem frakcje z taka dokladnie mysla by frakcja sama sie oplacala. Tylko i wylacznie nie polegam na in-game pieniadzach. One tylko i wylacznie beda potrzebne do samoutrzymania. Ale organizacja glownie skupi sie na surowcach.

W pierwszym poście umieściłem adres serwera discord dla polskiej społeczności. Graczy którzy będą testować DU, brać udział w Alpha i Beta testach. Zapraszam oczywiście do korzystania z niego. Co do jego "konfiguracji" to nie będzie problemu pod względem tworzenia kanałów, ich konfiguracji, dawania "moderatorów", tworzenia grup, co ma się znajdować i gdzie. Jestem otwarty na wszelkie propozycje. Wspólnymi siłami na pewno damy radę stworzyć miejsce gdzie gracze / testerzy z DU będą mogli wymieniać się spostrzeżeniami z testów, poznawać nowych ludzi w DU. Można się ze mną kontaktować poprzez to forum oraz już bezpośrednio na serwie DUAL UNIVERSE POLSKA discorda, poniżej link:
 
https://discord.gg/Kh5cAyT
 

Ja odliczam już godziny devu   , mam nadzieję, że serwer w sobotę odpali, do zobaczenia gdzieś na "pierwszej" planecie   .
 
A co do DU to ja podchodzę na spokojnie. Plany są piękne, mechanika obiecująca. Ale pamiętam jak było z Elite Dangerous. Jak zaczynałem testy od Premium Bety w ED. Było nas kilku, 4 czy 8 systemów planetarnych, jedna stacja. Skakaliśmy pomiędzy systemami w koło, dokowaliśmy do stacji na okrągło . Frajdy było co niemiara, cieszyliśmy się z ED jak dzieci. Plany Frontiera co do ED  też były piękne i jak wyszło......kto jest bardziej zorientowany to wie......delikatnie mówiąc kiepsko. Oby Dual Universe tego nie powtórzył. Trzymam mocno za nich kciuki. DU ma szanse być świetnym sandboxem mmo osadzonym w kosmosie. Przynajmniej w tym przypadku mamy pewność, że chodzenie po planetach będzie od początku ...... .
 
Pozdrawiam

SC to ladnie wygladajacy sklepik ze statkami jak dla mnie. Moze za kilka lat cos tam zrobia ale absolutnie nic mi nie zastapi satysfakcji zbudowania wlasnego miasta/statku/czy bazy i jak odwiedze kolege obok to wiem ze za kazdym razem to bedzie unikatowe doswiadczenie. W SC jak zobacze statek to bede tylko wiedzial jak gruba byla VISA card ;). Nie.. jak dla mnie to jest model gier z lat 90.
 
DU moze nie bedzie tak pieknie wygladalo ale dla mnie grywalnosc sie liczy. Ta gra jest najblizej z jakiejkolwiek gier ktore zblizyly sie do mojej gry marzen. Mam nadzieje ze sie nie rozczaruje. Ale coz, kazdy ma swoje preferencje
 
@Skimus zapraszamy do nas na kanal. Naliczylismy 6 osob z goldem juz.
 
@SzaryWilk tez zapraszam, my spotkamy sie juz 23

Wait for skills, tools that will directly correspond to mining capabilities. It's a perfect opportunity and make sense for this to happen if we really want this to be valuable profession as well.
If digging will be too easy and like that for everyone one? Balance of the game, performance of the servers etc.. I simply can't comprehend why you guys assuming otherwise.
 
Sure it's boring, and hell yeah! make it slower, invest into equipment, create variety of it! Stimulate the market! But if you feel is too boring for you, probably you should not be a miner!  

Wait for skills, tools that will directly correspond to mining capabilities. It's a perfect opportunity and make sense for this to happen if we really want this to be valuable profession as well.
If digging will be too easy and like that for everyone one? Balance of the game, performance of the servers etc.. I simply can't comprehend why you guys assuming otherwise.
 
Sure it's boring, and hell yeah! make it slower, invest into equipment, create variety of it! Stimulate the market! But if you feel is too boring for you, probably you should not be a miner!  

Is not how it works, you don't travel from sector to sector handled by different nodes, its a server that share the load and dynamically assign people based on where they are, Dynamically dividing space. So nobody will travel for glitches ;).
 
2k of us can be next to ark ship or spread across entire universe doesn't matter.
Lets say 20 nodes/100 players each will be assigned to node based on proximity.
If this is not good enough you can add more nodes. Spread the load.
 
Indeed the worst case scenario is, when everyone is at the same spot. Because even if smaller groups of people are being handled by different nodes, even if you have less frequent updates of people in visible range but physically handled by another node(s), nodes needs to send all data across. The part you sending it less frequently is clever, because greater delay will happen there anyway.
 
If we will spread and cannot see each other, that's a perfect scenario, because lets say small group of players went to different planet alone. They simply have dedicated node for themselves while still share same universe. Nodes do not have to communicate. Nobody cares if they dig up there or not. (as oppose to SE multiplayer solution  )
 
So... Arkship and surroundings will be a true stress test of what this system is capable of. Once we will start spreading we actually making server life easier.

The TL;DR of what everyone else said: No. DU will be kinda like space engineers, but with a speed limit like 20x greater, no impact damage, much tinier "blocks", and thousands of players on the same server, which (generally) doesn't reset. 

lol.. 20? I have a very decent server running and it barfs when we'e co-op building with 4 players with all sorts of weird things happening.. And it's always fun to take a seat at the bridge, then get up and find yourself outside the ship.. Or try using a jump drive while not in a seat ..Poof.. there goes your ship while you stay behind adrift in space .. lol..
 
It's been worse though.. much worse..
 
And doing a daily restart of the server would generally not be a bad idea and is basically common practice (I would expect DU to do the same).

SE barely can handle 20 players for longer than a week.. so NO, DU is well ahead
 
As far as damage go, it's a crucial difference how both games handle that, one is designed to handle heavy load another (as I would argue is more realistic) will never make possible for SE to become anything else but casual co-op. Why is not realistic? Because once server begins to feel a load things are shaking jumping and spinning out of control that you are better of without any physics as oppose to unrealistic one.

Hi Folks,
 
I had some time on my hands to do my hobby. And I have to say this, it is fist time in my life I decided to share with you some tunes I've created being inspired by this game. Even created account on soundcloud, yay!.
 
I really like the music behind this project but I was trying to add more diversity. You know... some faction related stuff
 
Here it is, faction anthem.
 
Hope one day all my friends from Organisation will fly to it together
https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/homeless-march-of-giants
 
And this piece.. I would imagine yourself in deep space, out of oxygen, resources, energy but...
https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/homeless-never-give-up
 
Apologies for some glitches, levels out of balance etc... This is very rough material, still trying to figure out how to record this properly from my moXF6. 
 
And if you got inspired, created some music, art, please share it with us!
 
Here is the link to entire collection I occasionally updating with new song:
https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/tracks

Looking forward to it for sure. And not as much LUA as HTML possibilities got me interested. Front-end dev by profession  
But I know for a fact after all day long at work pushing keys, mindless mining or building is so relaxing and tempting..
Will see how it goes

All speculation, we don't know yet.
 
I'd rather be in pre-alpha longer and test thoroughly than rushing things. But that's just my opinion

The reason I ask... I saw this today:

 

@killabits  I had HUGE concern when I was at secondary school. How to deal with bullies? Well.. it tuned out I had some advantage and used it against them. Those who didn't.. well you had no choice in RL but man up. I just don't get it why online people seeking some protection from outside. Same social patterns apply. Find a group of people you getting along with or you think can give you that protection if you can't deal with it on your own.

The pre-alpha features look already more compelling than Space Engineers for me personally. Provided there are no gamebreaking bugs, this is not even a fair comparison.

The reason I ask... I saw this today:

 

As we know, people flocking to DU coming from many sources, We all know Eve group is strong but they have no idea what user generated content is about . I wonder how many of you SE players got your hopes high in SE to the level you want to play with more than 5 players on the map, dreamed about some goals, economy, politics AND smooth voxels for fine tuned designs?
 
Myself, I was modding and running my own server. Got over 4k hours on record (such a waste of time) but gave up on that game long time ago and the only title close to my expectations is DU.

Forget your faction, everybody should have your music as a playlist while playing DU!
You certainly can picture the endless universe through it.
Thanks for the share!

That's Awesome! Ether way I am excited to finally be able to play it my self even if it will be buggy, but it will really make me smile if we do get to keep our blueprints because it only save you time from redoing what you did once be for right?  Plus most of my blue prints will probably be things I planned on putting on the open market anyway.

Go AMD, for $900 you can get a decent platform to game on. And when comes to GPU 1060/ RX580 should be good enough. Let miners go for newest Vega bonanza. When comes to high end 1080 still makes more sense to go green team. But when comes to CPU RED team hold better value for performance/price ratio