devu

Thanks guys, I was really afraid to share those. You know.. you never know Someone asked for more, well I actually made a little intro based on original sound track to get closer to our beloved game everyone is waiting for. https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/homeless-particle-horizon-intro Hope that is not a copyright thingy going on here... not selling this or anything so let's say just in case this one is a total gift to DU community. And that original piece is my fav anyway! And what is it in space than need music? Humans will go crazy in total silence! We have to fill the vacuum somehow, it's in our nature

Thanks guys! For word of encouragement This is another tune then: https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/homeless-grind For those spending hours mining

Hi Folks, I had some time on my hands to do my hobby. And I have to say this, it is fist time in my life I decided to share with you some tunes I've created being inspired by this game. Even created account on soundcloud, yay!. I really like the music behind this project but I was trying to add more diversity. You know... some faction related stuff Here it is, faction anthem. Hope one day all my friends from Organisation will fly to it together https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/homeless-march-of-giants And this piece.. I would imagine yourself in deep space, out of oxygen, resources, energy but... https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/homeless-never-give-up Apologies for some glitches, levels out of balance etc... This is very rough material, still trying to figure out how to record this properly from my moXF6. And if you got inspired, created some music, art, please share it with us! Here is the link to entire collection I occasionally updating with new song: https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wasilewski-4/tracks

Well, seems like Logo of my organisation was a perfect pick for this story-line

Well, there is, how is calculated is another story, but using automation could exclude skill progression. You didn't read or misunderstand me above. Let's say Iron ore is on the market for $100/tone To dig it up by hand I need.. time. Let's say 1h. Then I have option: Using drone I need to be present in order for script to run this operation. (Maybe busy building something) Same drone will spend 2h to give me same amount. It will burn Fuel within 2h that in Planetary conditions will simply cost me $300. Mining equipment may have durability or simply break so... I will need even more to maintain it. So sure, this way I can turn tedious job to auto grind. And yeah, I can possibly mine more over the time if I can afford it. Because I am not performing a business activity here whatsoever. How is that profitable? Everyone can dump whatever and as much as he wish and you will not stop free market. If I'm stupid enough to dump this on the market I'm certainly not contributor to the global economy when amount of resource is limited on this planet. In fact I would make this resource more valuable over the time by digging more and dumping with my loss. But for someone who like to go to work or have a family life (IF i can afford it automation could be an option for me) Because I could mine and build and manage at the same time. Matter of opinion but, consider this: 1. Same automated drone could be cheaper in space / asteroids. It would make it more profitable. Force people to fly into orbit, space, search expeditions, create transports, escorts, Stimulate market more, encourage pirates. Simply more interaction. 2. Variety of scripts would contribute to the market and LUA programmers to actually BE a profession. Having few flying scripts will be set after few first days of gameplay and nobody will ever consider it as a serious profession in game if this is the only purpose to have LUA. 3. If such tools are available for everyone market will balance itself no matter you grinding by hand or large volumes. In fact newbie way would remain the most profitable and preferable for starters no matter what. 4. If this is going to be a game to spend 8h under the ground per day to mine resource I'd rather get back to the office, same tedious s**t . I have no chance with those who have lot's of spare time. The audience is kind of limited to maniacs. Games are for fun after all. We were there already many times, Technic on minecraft for instance. Space Engineers executed that idea but implementation was never meant to be for MMO. This is why is not scale-able. But once you had balanced server it worked. Non of above destroyed economy. It only made game play more interesting and stimulating. So we have LUA as part of initial implementation but we going to reprogram flying behavior. I consider it a waste. If that was planned from the start I am sure it would be easier ti implement few items to buy to change that flying behavior and save time on LUA integration, maybe the game itself would be even better optimized without such thing. but that.. is my humble opinion as a programmer and player.

Well, looks like majority of you dislike idea of mining automation. But once again I will remind you how easy is to keep the game and market well balanced if you stick to only 1 rule. Keep amount of energy to be a unit of every activity performed in game. If I have a drone that cost me some resources/currency then I have to spend extra for maintenance and fuel all your worries are unjustified. If it will be cheaper to dig some common ore by hand, I will do so when time permits. Simply because cost of automated mining will overcome my profit. So probably I would not use it for cheap materials at all. Some of you mentioned SE. Well I was running SE server myself trying to create some economy based on their game play. And trust me, vanilla SE is very badly balanced game. Nobody in RL using helicopters to mine resources on Planet for god sake! . But they do!. And not only because of engineering difficulties but mostly because economical reasons. You can also create drilling platforms and that's much better option, but you have to operate it at time to time. However, if I will decide to use helicopter/drone/plane/pus chair for mining operations because I have plenty of fuel, I'm filthy rich, it's my loss. I'm not destroying economy by doing this. I simply throwing my wealth on it. But maybe instead playing 24/7 I may as well enjoy a game 3h per day and be able to keep up. Using same argument even in normal conditions without automation, will you stop me selling any good below market prices? Even if I will sell with loss? Because this is what essentially it would come down to. Add to this no skill progress when using drones, less quality or quantity. It's all perfectly balance-able IMHO. It's simply easier not to do it and call it a feature. I hope creators will rethink some aspects of this for future releases. Especially when writing scripts for such automated tools will actually help economy. Those programmers waiting to get their hands on LUA will end up with few scripts for flying behavior on the market, because how many variations you can possibly have?. Rest of them, jobless will go digging instead

I must have missed that one. Reference?

Indeed, as I understand reasoning behind this decision, lack of automation having a LUA in-game at the same time, is kind of contradiction. I am sure this could be balanced if allowed. Many of you had some ideas already. Slower mining, lower yield, no skill progress when using it etc. What really concerns me is, that I came across dev blog (don't quite remember what subject exactly) and over there authors were trying to convince us this game will be balanced for players that play around 2-3h per day without a need to be attached to the screen 24/7. Surely automation could actually help to achieve that goal, by not giving advantage to kids or students that have plenty of spare time on their hands This is a first time I feel a bit disappointed there is no more thought put into this area other just cut it out because it's easier. The fact you need to be present for scripts to run is good enough to prevent some mass mining operations anyway. Anyway, I am sure people creativity will not stop here and where is an opportunity to take advantage people will try to exploit the system with given tools anyway. Put few crew members in front of the ship with drills on auto click and program the ship via LUA and you have a semi-automatic drill. Your colleagues can go to work while you take a shift

Mentioned that in other thread already but again the same point would be valid here. If Dual will be well balanced based on energy requirements there is nothing to worry about. The answer to your question will come down to one thing. Work out how much energy/resources you need to acquire land vs expand. If expansion will be hard enough that nobody will reach ends of galaxy in a lifetime it is safe to call this game infinite. If you need a year or so to reach next solar system I think we will never run out of territorial wars I bet many nations we know on Earth given a chance to move within a year to next solar system would leave our planet many centuries ago

There is one more and important aspect of this debate here we keep on overlooking. This is supposed to be MMO, 2 branches? Can't see this happening. This is what alpha is for. Test, debug, before we can play for real. So I would imagine whoever will take part in alpha testing phase is doing it purely for testing, not early access advantage. Once game goes live the world will be wiped out and restarted. Am I correct here? Could devs confirm?

It appears to be indeed, but if you think of it, looking at the very big picture for the first human making fire to the last being able to pull a rocket to another planetary body there is one common factor. Amount Energy Required Food, resources to satisfy people = energy Workforce to fee Army build equipment and keep it even idle = energy and so on. Any advancement in human civilisation was in line with finding a more powerful source of energy. You know why we can feed billions of people on this planet? Because we have more energy we ever had in the past. Sure, politics and divisions is a social aspect but... if you think hard enough about resources needed to sustain individual nation and why one nation grows another doesn't? resources and energy again This is also a very simple and yet powerful way of balancing EVERY game and yet so many times overlooked, overcomplicated. Set the energy requirement conditions for resources and the rest will self-balance itself. You will not rule a solar system sitting on 1 planet, that's for sure. But to be able to do so you will need lots of energy. And now I can use the word POWER. You as a leader will need lots of it to keep the ENERGY flowing.

I share a concern with many here, about having early access that a factor of generating a hype bust effect especially when expectations are high. Many of us had bad experience with early alpha access games I would assume and we know that many times the game ended up better in many places, sometimes development was literally driven by community and steering the goal in bad direction or ending up as unfinished buggy product with no purpose but just to take a look and leave. However, I do believe in few things here. I've read almost every devblog post here, many posts on this forum and came to some conclusions. 1. Developers seems to know what they talking about. I'm a programmer myself and many times had those conversations about what is or what isn't possible these days to achieve. With the right approach and know-how and a bit innovative thinking it's certainly a possible goal. 2. Obviously, there will be some compromises and optimisation to be made for all this to make it happen and this is where level of expectation may clash with reality. I hope devs here are mature people and they will select mature testers for alpha phase who understand what alpha or even beta means. People who can provide constructive critics not just constant moan. There is indeed a real danger if you saying multiple times (this and that may not be implemented at first stage) 3. It appears to me that devs are mature and will not make this game community driven wish list because there is nothing worst in development. Unfortunately, the whole IT world has been crippled by non-tech people to do things for many stupid reasons not taking tech and logic into account. I believe in dev anarchy lead the way!. And the whole concept of this game seems to have legs and solid ground. There is enough material to work with and guys, please don't let yourself distracted. Sure is good to have an idea panel in the form of a community, but it should not be a distraction at this stage.

Find new home first of all Anyway, I'm definitely looking forward to DPU possibilities. Already have quite a few algos in mind to stabilise flight after engine failure. I dream of VTOL that can rotate. (Devs? ) Definitely engineering and programming will take a center stage for me, but I am sure rest of the crew is crueler than me. Will see how the politics work out.

Wickedcody, you must come directly from steam early alpha moddable games that make you suffer and introduced to the bad player experience. Well, MMORPG is not in the same category. What is new about this one is MMORPG goes alpha. I believe there will be a period of alpha or even beta testing before game starts for good because once the game world is official cannot be changed or altered much. It's players that will do so in boundaries of game mechanic. Developers can and probably will leave doors open for things like the addition of new items / blocks but it's up to them to control it and be aware of the balance at every single step. It is very easy to put something OP and destroy the economy or eliminate the usefulness of many players effort within one simple addition to the game. So the real opportunity to influence early development is to post ideas here. But don't expect mods on MMORPG game ever, read wiki about this genre and maybe you will understand why

Well, we live in a cloud. Why not give the ability to connect to external services that already host and stream music? I would imagine to have LCD screens that sync to youtube as easily too I have seen first attempts back in 1997 using VRML language when we were on modems! And I have seen it in Entropia Universe game (former Project Entropia) doing just well.

Nobody ever player Entropia Universe? They have real cash economy (they were way before even EVE was born) They have massive non-linear skill system for pretty much every activity in game that whatever you do you getting better at. Simple as that. I never saw any better or superior system to that. And game kept going from over a decade or almost 2. I wish this particular title would be taken into account when comes to skills. Tech trees and simple Grind is the thing of the past. And... is not far from what CaptainTwerkmotor keeps on saying here. It makes perfect sense.

More I read about this game and dev blog I falling in love even more. This is exactly how I would imagine my dream game voxel-based in space MMO. Reshape universe when people have only tools, nothing is predefined. But for this to function we need a grasp of reality. No shortcuts, because the system is so generic there is no room for lazy and quick workarounds. Surely one of this self-balancing mechanism is to make sure the crew has an advantage over single player no matter what. If an individual can build massive mothership and take out the entire crew of members with no effort something would be wrong here. I hope even the fact the crew will actually be able to afford and build the mothership with collective effort will be enough. But it will become nearly 'impossible' task for individual. That should bring some lone wolves back on earth forget SE. This is supposed to be MMORPG game when everything can be shaped by players. Nobody will wipe servers every week or so. It's a continuous process. Stop bringing ideas from games we know. This thing require you to think out of the box!

Well, Imho is exactly opposite. Are you buying a new Car or just a design for it? Surely the factory that makes cars would like to buy latest designs for competitive model But customers like to have a physical thing, finished product more than its design. If this is expensive bespoke build like a yacht. Rich people will spend millions on the new boat, not just a plans and DIY instruction. And I would imagine same apply for space ships. The guy with resources and proper equipment can develop a manufacturing process for mass production, not the guy with a blueprint in his hand. That drives economy, not a guy with the blueprint in his hand. Because if everyone can do it easily there is no need for builders, no demand. I wouldn't bother to even look for such service myself. Now, how immerse is to go with the design/blueprint that makes is magically appear once you have it? Even if you need to gather all materials yourself? Nowhere close to reality. This game has massive potential to do many things very well. Creates the engine for people driven economy, politics. So let's do the same for the craft. Blueprint is not the immersive experience. It's a shortcut and simplification.

I'm actually against blueprints, this is so common in all voxel based games these days. If someone can get the design out of BP it ruins the whole branch of economy. Shipbuilders. If you have created a signature ship, I would rather find a way to automate the process some sort of factory-like assembly, programmed via LUA or something like this. Then actual physical product can be sold on market. It has a price tag because of effort. It goes cheaper because of automation and competitiveness with other builders put into it. But some may value custom builds more. I don't know. All I know uploading ready to go blueprint is just laziness and degrade shipbuilder as a profession in game that could emerge naturally.

SGU Destiny here I come