Mulligan

We will be there 
Edit: Atom will be there 

We will be there 
Edit: Atom will be there 

Reading through a lot of the responses I think one of the issues with du is that PvP is so new to DU. Being one of the last pillars to be introduced to the game a lot of the old vocal alpha players are strongly against pvp. It makes sense. For years the Kickstarter backers have been playing Minecraft in space and have built their own image of what the game should be in their heads. 
 
To me the biggest issue with DU is the lack of endgame content. Without a competitive advantage or side of the game there’s no point for emergent gameplay and it comes down to discord pvp. People resort to drama when they are bored.
 
Every part of the game is important and there needs to be a blend of play styles in order for the game to succeed. As the game is right now you can get late game in a single day of playing and sit on a mega node chewing a hematite vein and make crazy amounts of money. 
 
So you are now 15 hours into this game you can afford anything you want, what do you do now? The builders will build, the miners will mine, the factory boys will factory. The pvpers have a lack of content and to me pvp is the “endgame” . pvp creates a need for builders a need for miners a need for industry a need for creatives and basically all pillars lead to the consumers which are the pvpers.
 
some of what @blazemonger said is right pvpers need all the other pillars to work
 
what @Anderson Williams Said is also right. pvp is fun in its current state and just need a tweak/more incentive to do it. There are too many armchair generals who haven’t even tried it
 
As a leader of a small pvp org. NQ needs to give me a reason to go to war. Give me a reason to buy large quantities of items. Give me a reason to make allies and enemies. Give me a reason keep playing this game.

Reading through a lot of the responses I think one of the issues with du is that PvP is so new to DU. Being one of the last pillars to be introduced to the game a lot of the old vocal alpha players are strongly against pvp. It makes sense. For years the Kickstarter backers have been playing Minecraft in space and have built their own image of what the game should be in their heads. 
 
To me the biggest issue with DU is the lack of endgame content. Without a competitive advantage or side of the game there’s no point for emergent gameplay and it comes down to discord pvp. People resort to drama when they are bored.
 
Every part of the game is important and there needs to be a blend of play styles in order for the game to succeed. As the game is right now you can get late game in a single day of playing and sit on a mega node chewing a hematite vein and make crazy amounts of money. 
 
So you are now 15 hours into this game you can afford anything you want, what do you do now? The builders will build, the miners will mine, the factory boys will factory. The pvpers have a lack of content and to me pvp is the “endgame” . pvp creates a need for builders a need for miners a need for industry a need for creatives and basically all pillars lead to the consumers which are the pvpers.
 
some of what @blazemonger said is right pvpers need all the other pillars to work
 
what @Anderson Williams Said is also right. pvp is fun in its current state and just need a tweak/more incentive to do it. There are too many armchair generals who haven’t even tried it
 
As a leader of a small pvp org. NQ needs to give me a reason to go to war. Give me a reason to buy large quantities of items. Give me a reason to make allies and enemies. Give me a reason keep playing this game.

Reading through a lot of the responses I think one of the issues with du is that PvP is so new to DU. Being one of the last pillars to be introduced to the game a lot of the old vocal alpha players are strongly against pvp. It makes sense. For years the Kickstarter backers have been playing Minecraft in space and have built their own image of what the game should be in their heads. 
 
To me the biggest issue with DU is the lack of endgame content. Without a competitive advantage or side of the game there’s no point for emergent gameplay and it comes down to discord pvp. People resort to drama when they are bored.
 
Every part of the game is important and there needs to be a blend of play styles in order for the game to succeed. As the game is right now you can get late game in a single day of playing and sit on a mega node chewing a hematite vein and make crazy amounts of money. 
 
So you are now 15 hours into this game you can afford anything you want, what do you do now? The builders will build, the miners will mine, the factory boys will factory. The pvpers have a lack of content and to me pvp is the “endgame” . pvp creates a need for builders a need for miners a need for industry a need for creatives and basically all pillars lead to the consumers which are the pvpers.
 
some of what @blazemonger said is right pvpers need all the other pillars to work
 
what @Anderson Williams Said is also right. pvp is fun in its current state and just need a tweak/more incentive to do it. There are too many armchair generals who haven’t even tried it
 
As a leader of a small pvp org. NQ needs to give me a reason to go to war. Give me a reason to buy large quantities of items. Give me a reason to make allies and enemies. Give me a reason keep playing this game.

This a thousand times.  There are currently some exploits that need to be fixed, but once that's done all that's missing is just a dash of incentive, and I feel like the game will have emergent gameplay/endgame content.  Something simple to fight over in the pvp zone would go a long way.
 
As has been mentioned, there is currently a base of players who love the minecraft aspect of the game, but adding the endgame content/pvp will benefit them too by providing more customers and player-driven economy.  In order to keep that group happy, I wouldn't blame NQ if they left in a big safe zone so that you don't get shot at if you don't want to.
 
I feel like NQ has the goal of an emergent pvp endgame in mind, and perhaps just wants to make sure they get it right, fix bugs, optimize their server, etc. before they put in the required incentive.

I reiterate my last statement again. Watch the roundtable... And give it a chance, give the pvpers a chance.
 
11/21 @1500 EST on VarietyMMOs on youtube

Argument summary--
 
PVP
Them: Pvp is terrible... Pvp is boring...
 
Us - how much have you pvp'd?
 
Them: Once... Well maybe. 
 
Us - get out. 
 
 
Solo Play
Them: I have nothing to do as a solo player...
 
Us - isn't it supposed to be a team base group based game?
 
Them: I should be able to play the game anyway I want.. this game is terrible. 
 
Us - Get out.
 
 
Industry
Them: it takes alot of time and is tedium...
Us - omg just go quit already. 
 
Look we all get that the game isn't perfect but the game is what you make it. It's time for the people who play the game to give suggestions and have quality conversation versus the negative armchair expert player Archtype that is beyond cancer. Most of you want your cake and eat it too... Half of you complain that the game is boring or low intricacy/emergent game play but are the same individuals who whine over 'open world pvp'. How do you think the emergent game play occurs? 
 
 
For the PVPers, we are going to have a round table. We wanna set up talk about what we see as far as problems/successes of pvp and wanna offer insight to how to improve based on. Then hopefully NQ listens. The largest and best political/wars/conflicts/guineas book of world record events occur in Null sec. Where CCP doesn't try to build the sandcastle for you.. 
 
But alot of the same gripes and complaints are just complaining because the game isn't exactly how they imagined it... Or the game isn't playing itself for them and You have to make your own content.  Or even worse... They expect the game to be one way.. and it since it isn't..  the game isn't great. 
 
Poliwop brings up numerous good points... People complain it's boring but most of you would cry if it were hard. The problem is for the majority of DU community the game is fun. I feel many of you will never be satisfied. NQ is a small company doing massive company things. I'm sort of tired of reading the constant complaining. 
 
 

Don't worry one bit - I always try to assume positive intent. ? The key functionality you described is fairly ubiquitous across a lot of MMOs, yes, but I just wanted to acknowledge your suggestion. Apologies if I came across as shallow/trite!! (I've gotta think up a better way to verbally 'thumbs up' something.)
 

You're welcome! Sorry for the mini heart attack, there. ?
 
 
I'm honestly quite touched by the high level of player passion I've seen around here so far! (Even the spicier posts demonstrate nothing more than a huge desire to see DU reach its full potential, to me.)

Thanks again for being great, blaze. It's been nice chatting/learning about what matters to you.

None taken!  

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You'd like to see the fruits of my labor (gathering feedback - > sharing it with the team -> telling all of you about fixes/updates/whatever that resulted) before you determine whether or not increased communications here mean anything. Totally reasonable. We'll all just have to wait and see!

The one thing I can guarantee all of you right now is that JC (and everyone else at NQ) cares deeply about Dual Universe and its players. Hopefully you begin to see more of that attitude going forward. ❤️ 

 

Thank you for the quick response! I'll let the support team know that ticket times still feel longer than necessary. (Please note that the team was previously understaffed, but we're working on that! Wait times should be reduced going forward.) Would you mind sending me a DM with your in-game name? I'll do some investigating. ?️‍♀️

As for the in-game support, I believe that's going to be relied upon more heavily now. We are directing everyone asking for certain kinds of assistance on Discord to please go through the official in-game channel instead so that the GMs can do what they need to do.

Lastly, I'm really sorry to hear that you aren't feeling welcome in the Discord community. I hope this space feels better for you.

High quality chat, everyone. Please keep it up. ?

Planetary system is not implemented, there are planets but no planetary system, everything is just static, not even the sun is real.

Spaceflight is boring, mining is boring, building is super complicated, PvP is boring, industries are just unnecessarily complicated like TU and the links.

There are also technical problems on both the server and the client.

Surrogates are crap, why can't you steer a ship with them? Reason? So that you need 2nd accounts? And if u use them for a travel the ship will stop.

There are too many glitshes, just the Alt F4 issue, the client calculates the physics, no client = no physics, if you die, the ship stops immediately from 30000 to 0, in pvp too, force respawn, engine stacking, many duplication bugs.

Then there is the social issue, how is there supposed to be a "brisk trade" with these auction houses when you stand at the machine, why should I build buildings that nobody sees in the end because there is no reason to fly to anyone except trade .

The only thing that works really well is wasting time - it works great.

And with the whole background there is a PvP on top which is extremely unfair like XS Cores with L weapons/radar and engine stacking (u can stack all parts).

I can hardly imagine that someone who ignores all the points listed above and then still has the desire to continue after losing his ship in PvP, especially at the beginning, this can be fatal.

Quite simply, the game is far from having a large player base, as it is now, it will lose a lot of people, mostly forever.

Translated with Google if someone asks

The issue is the game is at least 90% tedium no matter what 'path' you pick.
 
Industry?  90% tedium of fighting the lag of the link tool or the random breakdowns where some random element simply stops working. 
 
Mining? - mining is 100% tedious.
 
Pvp? 90% waiting around.
 
Ship Design? Voxelmancy is 100% tedium.
 
Trading? 90% tedium of flying around from A to B.
 
And the lessons haven't been learned.....
 
NQ adds 'wrecks' which are also 90% tedium of flying around looking for them....

This last quitting survey is good initiative -- great to see all this communication/info gathering lately.
 
And I believe we (forum trigger-happy people) can contribute more to it by more extended discussion why people quit (or have some thinking process about it in terms of "if" conditions).
 
There is demographic waves (from KS to Alpha to Beta) with some differences in "road to quitting", but still, core issues, I think, are remain same for most.
 
Ehh.. I already feel a bit as Captain Obvious writing this, but can't stop : )
 
1) Broadly speaking -- tech issues.  Game not comfortable to play still for many people (impossible to play for most unlucky). 
 
2) Choking lack of content/mechanics. 
- no pvp warfare makes game stale for huge demographic who whats some action and meaning beyond "landmark in space", this is principal killer;
- rudimentary economic narrows interesting things for another great many people (both in time to be occupied and width of engagement);
- severe lack of social features to keep people at least this way;
 
Some combo of this was reason for 95% quits I witnessed in my circle of known players (most damage from boring world without full pvp and politics).

This content thing actualy go so far, that I failed to recruit several of my more critical minded friends after they asked "what can I do in game now?" After listening my best efforts (I tried to stretch list as far as possible), they refused, stating that it will not do. Maybe in 1 year.
 
So generaly, for serious number people, after initial gorging of available things to try/achieve, there is not much to du in game. Sad, but simple as that. Or not?
 
 
 
 
 
 

So i have been pushing for weeks-Months for NQ to have a PVP round table with those of us who PVP so we can really try to assist in helping pvp foster and Grow. Mostly ignored, whatever I trust JC/Entropy/NQ are doing the best they can. And I am aware the rules for the IDEA box is one idea per thread but this would take like 8 threads so consider this an IDEA for pvp balancing. After Entropy's Interview with Spreeezy, a GREAT interview I felt more excitement over the coming potential changes to PVP. Changes that make sense, changes that will inspire diversity in pvp.. and punish the 'Build Space filler' type construction. This is logical and more accurate, the thiccer and bigger a bebe the easier it is to hit it.

Anyways..

Entropy raised a good concern, and one we should all be leary of, how to prevent the L core and Medium cores from just being the end all be all for pvp. Ideally a Fleet of Large Cores would be the maximum fleet you would field, but it makes little sense for them not to have support. Its the equivalent of having a Capital Fleet in Eve that can do it all. That shouldn't be the case. The equation is simple...

The larger it is, the Worse it Preforms... But the more powerful. With the Opposite being true.

For instance, Large weapons should preform like Battleship weapons. They should gain labels, attributes, even Designs that suit that function.
- Large Railguns, should have worse tracking than they do now, and a MUCH slower rate of fire. The larger the gun, the slower the rate of fire. But the Damage should be catastrophic. So for instance, if a Ship is flying, lets say a Small Core with low crossection at say 5,000km/hr at a high transversal... the Large Railguns should almost NEVER be able to hit it. Other variables like overall distance, speed of the ship firing the weapon, and so on would be taken into effect. The further/closer having a modifer for the ability to hit the ship, sort of a Sweet spot.
- Missiles should focus more like Torpedos, with horrific tracking, that basically are only best fired at a target of large or Medium Core size. The launchers would be Labeled, like Capital Torpedoes or whatever. They have a super small magazine, maybe starting at 1 and expanding to 4. These weapons would have a SUPER long reload, but if that torpedo hits... its devistating. They would LOOK like torpedo launchers, not just a bland size edited missile launcher. Instead of having Mediums be smaller Torpedo launchers, have them function more like Cruise missile Launchers, with a Look to match. Lower yield than L weapons, maybe a larger magazine, and say longer range, better tracking but just don't pack anywhere near the strength of the Torpedos. Small missiles could be more like anti-S/XS core weapons. Large cores could use these as an attempt at PDWs, while XS/S do the same thing with the missiles. Larger magazine, reasonable range, but less damage. Tracking would be MUCH MUCH Higher. XS missiles would function almost like 'dumb firing rockets'. Obviously lock and fire but with a tiny window to hit, and a large window to miss. They would look and function the part.
- Lasers same thing, some super powerful low damage radius, but extreme damage area that functions as a Cutting laser or something to that effect. These weapons would serve some sort of purpose that they just dont now.

These sort of changes are just related to L weapons, but they would continue down the line. Cannons would function like HUGE heavy Cannon type weapons with incredible damage at close range, but you would have to time, pick your shots because of reload. Where as XS cannons would be like Vulcan Gattling guns, that serve a role.. anti-XS close range weapons, with magazines and function that SUITS the part. These XS would be almost fixed weapons, for the missiles, railguns, lasers as well. Ships wouldn't just orbit or joust, they would line up to fire at each other. The tactics associated would be so much more effective. These changes balance weapon systems to make a more dynamic role for weapons and combat tactics. It won't just be XS cube wins all, because XS cube will be IMMENSELY easy to hit and kill. And large/S/M core cubes would have the same issues, especially if ships have to balance fitting/power grid between engines/shields/weapons.
 

I'm really enjoying being part of this org. Great builders, cheap parts for members,  miners to supply the ore and then pvp to blow it all up. You should come check us out.

Great corporation/organization

real nice org many nice people there!

I'm having a lot of fun in with these guys! Great Org, and super friendly for new players!

Great post! Good luck with your org!