DuskLight
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Posts posted by DuskLight
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Is NQ planning on adding NPCs to DU?
I'm not here to debate. My friends and I just want a clear answer, in order to decide whether or not we want to keep supporting this game. We no longer want to support a game that's promising 100% player driven world. We fell for it before with other games which promised the exact same thing, and frankly, we're certain that it'll never work. So again, is NQ planning on adding NPCs.
Note: I'm NOT saying that NQ shouldn't stay true to their original vision, I am just saying that if they are, I personally don't want to give them my money.- joaocordeiro, Elusive_Voltis, Taziar and 1 other
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I am disappointed that the Devs still haven't realized that no NPCs = No game. Many Devs have tried and all have failed. I am aware that every development team has a vision they want to make a reality, however, the greater reality is simple; "Do you want to make money or not?"
NQ has this backwards as they are trying to make the player do the grunt work of an NPC. PvP will never be a reality if players have to worry about making a living in a game. You are making us peasants and frankly, why in the world would I pay my hard earned money to spend hours digging a hole in the dirt just to make ends meet? Why even bother with DU? I could get the same exact results playing any one of the dozens of games that fall for the same trap. We need to move past the peasant player mentality and move forward into automation. My NPCs do the work for me so I can plan how to interact with fellow players in terms of economy, peace, and warfare. I say this with the hopes that I don't get crucified for my views. I say this because I have invested my hard earned money into the game and I want it to succeed. All in All, we are tired of doing grunt work which should be automated and given to NPCs while players can actually log in and manage their wealth and relationships with other players and NPC factions.- UnscriptedVert and DawnSigma
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2 hours ago, Deintus said:
Without massive, massive changes over the next year, the only kind of endgame even possible is going to be imagination of the person playing. Such as most quanta, biggest ship, fanciest design, and none of it will be a shareable experience with other players unless they get satisfaction from youtube.
A lot of great points are made on this thread to be sure, but the way the game was originally advertised it seemed there really was never an endgame to reach.
However, to answer OP from my own pov. Endgame would be a combination of money, quality of life elements, pvp defense/offense, as well as pve in expanding and improving civilization as a whole.
The game was advertised as a civilization building game. My issue with the direction ZDU is going is that there are no mechanics which promote large scale cooperation and large scale conflict (pvp). The minute someone buys a lot next to me, the only thought I have is "as soon as pvp rolls out, not only do I have to kill my neighbor, but I also need to make sure that he is completely bankrupt so he can never do the same to me"" that is a really terrible way to play. Just awful.
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3 minutes ago, Warlander said:
The thing is unless they have the different solar systems as faction based systems with multiple solar systems fighting against each while working together with those that start there this galactic epic space war wet dream will never organically occur to where people are working together enough to wage a war against themselves vs turning all their power towards everyone weaker then them when it should be a civilization pulling together for survival with all orgs working to fullfull all the roles and making it so that anyone other than large orgs has enough disposable income to even fight in the first place. Who in their right mind is going to throw away potentially hundred of millions of credits night after night fighting a war when we barely even are given enough slack to make a small fleet to just perform daily functions that needs to last as long as possible before that 120+ mil in replacement parts hits.
1- I'm glad I gave you a good laugh
2- I agree with the points you made there.
Working together in factions is far more enjoyable than small scale pvp. I fail to see the civilization building part in this game about civilization building. -
25 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:
It is a sandbox, end game is what ever you want it to be, don't be afraid to go off rail and try something new.
(although NQ is doing there best to put rules in the sandbox or run away with the ball
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I agree that it is a sandbox but we only have so much sand to play with; dig a hole and grind for hours on end, make a ship, lose it in space, rinse and repeat. PvP gets old fast. The game is starting to feel like a grindy 9 to 5 mining job.
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pvp is good, but is it enough?
It seems that DU is headed towards an endgame model that is entirely predicated on pvp which makes it feel like a giant battle royal with extra steps. Very grindy steps. is that sustainable?
Mining and industry are means to an end, which begs the question, to what end?
Can an MMO be sustainable without any exploration or pve? is pvp enough of a reason to keep you paying your sub?
Let's discuss this.
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We have to have pvp. We have to have an economy. How do you marry the two?
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2 hours ago, Deintus said:
The one big question I have, is will NQ try to implement enough RL situations to simulated a full fledged economy?
You nailed it on the head. That, right there is my question. I genuinely don't have an answer to the entire pvp/market situation. That's why I posted here, and that's why I think that this needs to be discussed and, also because there isn't a consensus yet on what works.
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"Civilization IV designers Soren Johnson and Sid Meier, who said, respectively: ” given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game,” and that, therefore, “one of the responsibilities of designers is to protect the player from themselves.” -article from The Gamer by Chloe Prince, Mar 24, 2020
NQ has a very complicated design question to answer. How do you balance pvp and confidence in the market and give players what they need instead of what they want?
-Other games solved the issue by implementing permanent bots and it made the market feel artificial. This is something NQ already stated that they won't do and I commend them for that.
-War exhaustion is a real life psychological phenomenon and it happens to all of us and individually.
-We will get tired of fighting and every now and then, we will want a break from war.
-What about our builders who don't want to fight?
-War is expensive and needs stable markets
-We need incentive for community and a relative sense of peace. Emphasis on relative.
NQ has a real challenge on their hands. -
"Civilization IV designers Soren Johnson and Sid Meier, who said, respectively: ” given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game,” and that, therefore, “one of the responsibilities of designers is to protect the player from themselves.” -article from The Gamer by Chloe Prince, Mar 24, 2020
NQ has a very complicated design question to answer. How do you balance pvp and confidence in the market and give players what they need instead of what they want?
-Other games solved the issue by implementing permanent bots and it made the market feel artificial. This is something NQ already stated that they won't do and I commend them for that.
-War exhaustion is a real life psychological phenomenon and it happens to all of us and individually.
-We will get tired of fighting and every now and then, we will want a break from war.
-What about our builders who don't want to fight?
-War is expensive and needs stable markets
-We need incentive for community and a relative sense of peace. Emphasis on relative.
NQ has a real challenge on their hands. -
1 minute ago, blazemonger said:
Combat as in conflict between orgs/groups/communities will always have consequences. The incidental solo activities of rogues elements and pirates possibly less so but hey do not really play a role in the overall story of the game IMO. That doe snot make them less viable or the gameplay less relevant for those involved but they do not really affect the bigger picture. All of that IMO obviously..
Maybe, in time, orgs will become towns, then cities. Getting to that point will be a blood bath though. I can see how ffa pvp could work. well, that answers that.
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Thx for talking this out btw. I think I have a better understanding of my original thought.
My question is this, if pvp come with no consequences, and there is no incentive for peace, then what's the point?
Should pvp come with consequences or do you think that life will balance itself out somehow, given enough time? -
1 hour ago, Xennial said:
This is really no different then a PvP flag unless I'm misunderstanding the OP. I would be very sad to see NQ go full carebear like this so that only PvP is consensual "wars" between orgs. Even non consensual PvP being limited to orgs would be a mistake imo, it would be gamed hard by people simply using non org territories for anything of value.
pvp is fun and all. My concern is maintaining a stable economy in a complete anarchy. It's never worked before, what would make it work now? I'm curious.
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12 hours ago, Deintus said:
One thing that concerns me is defense while offline. Even for small orgs. It seems you should be able to build automated defenses... We have types of that in 2020... 900 years later in space makes sense it would be researchable, unlockable, buildable.
I agree that offline defense is going to be a tricky thing to balance. I know that open world pvp is a fun idea but for a voxel game where people sometimes want to kickback and build, there needs to be some sort of risk vs reward that would make someone weigh the two first before they commit to a fight. Frankly, I don't see how FFA pvp with zero rules could succeed in civilization building game.
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1 minute ago, Lethys said:
Sure why not. NQ doesn't give a damn about kickstarter goals anymore so maybe just change ffa pvp too
We're just making conversation.
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What if there was a "politics" talent tree that governed war mechanics. War exhaustion pool size, regeneration speed...etc
We'd also need tangible reasons to form alliances, say a small bonus to war stats or something of the sorts.
11 minutes ago, XKentX said:Limit personal cores to 2
Maybe limit Organization cores or gate them behind the above mentioned talent tree?
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27 minutes ago, Deintus said:
I think I know where you're going with this but if you don't mind could you please elaborate by going into more detail? Just want to be sure there's no misunderstanding.
What I said is as far as I had thought. I wanted to put the idea out there and see where it goes.
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- PvP based on organization war, rather than free-for-all PvP
- Implement war exhaustion mechanics to prevent one Org from going zerg -
This is based on my own personal experience with an MMO, I currently play, which has also earned my loyalty for the past five years and hopefully more years to come.
The following is the model I currently enjoy and think is fair:- Buy to play (One must buy the base game and every subsequent major expansion, not including small content updates).
- Pay to Play (Subscription based with occasional free trial weekends and refer-a-friend programs).
- A balanced/healthy mix of cosmetics split between in-game achievements and a cash-shop with zero(0) pay-to-progress elements.
- Absolutely no F2P as it will undoubtedly turn into pay-to-win(P2W) with a toxic community.
I personally would not play any game labeled as F2P. Nothing is free.
Ultimately, your business model will heavily depend on the quality of your work. if the game is beautiful, works as intended, and the game loop is fun, it will sell itself through word of mouth. In my opinion, the best marketing strategy is a loyal playerbase who love the game and not just power through it until something better comes out.That's my two cents.
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Hello,
I think I'm not the only one who has tried every space game under the sun hoping for a real MMO experience. I admit that I am somewhat apprehensive, however, I do have very high hopes for this game. I wish the devs best of luck.
Regards,Dusk
P.S. I'd like to make some new friends so add me!
SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread
in General Discussions
Posted
Full wipe and do it right this time. There is no point of shackling the devs as they attempt to salvage the game. The community must be willing to make sacrifices for the benefit of the game as a whole.