Othon von Salza

I have been thinking a lot about this in the past days. I guess many of us have. This is the last I'll say about it. Some approach a no-wipe by giving arguments, some by ultimatums, some by expressing how they feel, some disappear in silence, some undergo it, and some approach it by bargaining: your wipe is ok if you leave me with this; thinking to compromise. The pro-wipe people on the other hand have yet to present to me a convincing argument. Everyone agrees that a wipe will resolve symptoms, for some time, but, in the end, that it wouldn't resolve the underlying issues. Thus, history will repeat itself (mark this). NQ could still make mistakes (e.g., radar in PTS just recently) affecting us, and that can't be prevented, it is the nature of development. People will still exploit these mistakes, it is the nature of people, and should be punished for it if they could have known better. Hence, I need to conclude that the only real reasons for a wipe, from the player-base's perspective, are competitiveness, seeing the world burn, not caring, trolling, ignorance, aside from technical reasons that are parroted, of which I have said before: any good technical reason would result in a statement from NQ that there would be a wipe and to what extent. And that is not what we got. Nevertheless, I get NQ's point of view .. it is about minimizing collateral (us) on the prospect of new players at launch, but also old players that gave up somewhere along the way, most notably around 0.23. They might be convinced of the need to promise a leveled playing field at launch, given the state of the game today, while not angering its community too much not to lose those that actually play the game, and organize fun in it. Some propose a poll in here ... I think the poll is being executed by this post of NQ (like they did through previous ambiguous announcements). Else, if that wasn't its purpose, I don't get it. Not only has it sowed discord, it has created distrust, is ineffective, is giving people time to reconsider things and move on, killed the incentive to play the game, and what not. Whatever NQ's ultimate decision would be, this post has done much more harm than it could have done good. That's why I said in #duscussion that NQ is probably watching the channel with a big bowl of popcorn, as all of this is either incredibly shortsighted or intentional, and how can it not be intentional? But, NQ: IF you had just laid out your concerns, instead, and the fact that you don't have a good solution, without any hint as to what you would/could decide or implement it. That would have been constructive as it would help people see your point of view, and you would have gotten a response much less driven by emotion (or have casted people in emotional roller-coasters). This could have helped you see what your community thinks about it (who have all been new players at some point), rather than making them angry at you and each other. Furthermore, timing ... you are running a PTS for an update, in the Easter period. Why not wait until after for such an announcement, so you could actually provide clarity in due time, instead of letting us hang. By now, there have been many logical arguments against a wipe (aside the list of promises made or hinted at by NQ) to be found in this thread (ranging from technological reasons to commercial implications). There is no point in repeating all of them. I think the most notable one is that there will remain a need for a continuously leveled playing field in the future, not solved by a wipe. Thus, a wipe without the required changes for equalizing things doesn't make sense, and when these changes are in place they invalidate the need for a wipe. This is pure logic. However, people don't always follow logic, and thus even under these changes NQ might need to convince new players with the prospect of a fresh start. What can I say, they run a business. But, NQ, note that for this equalizing, in society, we have tax systems, like a non-linear tax on capital and income. If in DU linked to the daily income system, this would effectively level the playing field. This leveled playing field is also why in society we guide our economy's inflation, to give active people an advantage over non-actives, to give newer players an advantage over older ones, to devaluate capital that goes unused. And thus, to renew the economy continuously. Add to that degradation of property and maintenance (by reducing your HP counters over time), and what you get is a real economy that can be tuned through taxes and minimum/maximum prices. Recall that with such an approach you wouldn't have needed construct slots either (as I said then). However, by the time people can propose solutions, you have already implemented/developed your solution, which you introduce, and which then can only be weakened or strengthened, based on the community's response. But from which you can no longer pivot. Note that NQ's approach in this announcement is similar to before (and after some examples of the kind can only be concluded to be intentional too), with construct slots the most recent example. They make a statement which is infuriating to some and then revert it back a bit so that people feel acknowledged, reaching an end-point which would not have been accepted otherwise. It is NQ's one-sided bargaining with the community. Or rather (emotionally) manipulating the community. And that's abusive to those that don't see the manipulation, and insulting to those that can. At the very least by it, we feel agitated, deceived, manipulated, stopped playing, or quit the game to convince you, NQ, that you shouldn't take us for granted and treat us like this. People that have been with you for a long long time, have promoted you, and have walked the path you have taken us through highs and lows. People that are mostly silent. People that understand compromise, that things change, and above all that want this game to grow. People that only ask for openness, clarity, and a bit of respect for their time and money. I know, none of us individually matter. Whatever I do as a consequence of whatever decision NQ takes, it won't be felt nor by NQ nor the community. So, I'm not gonna give an ultimatum, nor be angry, or try a tactic to have you don't wipe. I will not try to move the public opinion in any way. I think I'm in a state that is much worse .. I don't care anymore. My relation with you NQ has changed, and it won't be fixed easily. I don't trust you anymore. You had once this resolution that you would stick your ground, that you would live your vision, which made me feel safe to invest my limited time in, for which I would have compromised a lot. But Yama said it: this has turned into an abusive relationship; and the best thing you can do in that case is cut your losses and live with the hurt. TBH, NQ, you have just turned from the company I am a customer of (and do business with), into my dealer: I have a hard time trusting you, but you sell me something I like too much to give up on yet. To NQ. Thank you. I'm grateful although it might not have sounded that way. The visionaries, the developers, and community managers alike. I'm convinced you want the best too. So, let's see what you do. To NQ. I challenge you (if you dare) along with the entire community to solve The Metacomplex (vr) puzzle. No one ever has, I think no one can (without cheating), and when wiped, likely no one ever will.

Yeah I have been around long enough to know how driven you were during alpha and how helpful you were towards the community. Yet there is absolutely no reason to divide people over how you feel about it now. Maybe you should say something about how a wipe would affect you. Would you return? What would you think is fair? That could add to the discussion.

NQ I hope you will read this. Please do. As for the first time ... NQ ... I'm really really really disappointed in you guys. And this has nothing to do with the quality of the work you deliver to us. Please understand that. You have my respect for that. BUT The only reason why your blogpost has been structured like this and that this update, which isn't an update, has been postponed for so much time, is because you know what you want and you can't say it. You try to find ways around it, but in the end, you will execute on it, as you usually do ... NQ, you want a wipe. YES you want it .. just bloody admit it. Don't act like there are options, as there aren't. Either you wipe or not, you know it, and you do not want to NOT wipe. The whole post is structured to that end. First of all, this hasn't been on the table since the start ... since the start the only thing which was on the table was a wipe IF (big if) there was a technical need for it (It has been stated like that in words, it has been in discord for anyone to see in text). I'm pretty sure if you explain me such a good reason I'm gonna understand it, likely sigh, but accept it. You knew if you had such a reason you would tell us. On that premise you therefore kept people playing and investing in a game for which you needed those people playing that game. IF it had been on the table since the start, then it was a deliberate lie to keep us investing time. This is why I am disappointed, because you are essentially saying that you deceived me on purpose. You act like a technical reason has now been found in removing schematics and improving certain planets. TBH those are non-reasons. They are excuses. You did burry half of the constructs in DU without a problem either. And, why would schematics be difficult to remove, it seems harder to introduce something like that than the other way around. As a side note ... removing schematics as an argument for a wipe? Sounds like irony in the making. I hope you can see that. So, NQ you want a wipe .. now tell me why? Will you wipe again in 2 years? Do you think many of those old backers you mention that allegedly wanted a polished game will stick around, will be invested? This game has never kept people playing just because of polishing. It kept people playing because of a sense of building something towards something. New players want to have a fair chance at release? So, in 2 years will new players have a fair chance, what about in 1 year? What about in 3 months? New players will never have a fair chance, instead now they will have a worse chance, noone is gonna hand out anything to ease their starters experience. Nah .. you are right more people will try out the game believing they have a fair chance. But that will only work 3 months? At the most. Then, your wipe will have no longer an effect. People requesting a wipe now, and not playing because they feel things are unfair, will stop playing again. Now let me add some things you haven't explicitly considered: * Many active players have their experiences in the game, and have not much more to explore or do, if there is no value for them in the game they might not restart. * How many alts does one need when there is nothing around to manage. All active players likely will end up with fewer alts when the game starts. Many many of those alts are beta key accounts. * Why haven't you considered wiping only certain elements, like ship elements, and industry elements, and money? Keep the voxels? If there is no money to buy something, will you trade voxels for elements? * Why not considering inflation as a means to devaluate previous exploits. There are many good solutions ... including a snapshot of constructs before today as a wipe baseline. But it doesn't matter .. I knew this was coming .. I was hoping it would not .. Great moment to reconsider things .. as you just announced ragnarok to me 😛.

A society always builds on the ashes of a previous society. It evolves, by changing rules in the environment. Anything abrupt such as a wipe will not only make everyone start anew, it will disrupt all societies already formed within DU to a cataclysmic extent. The effect of that will not be pretty. People still playing the game today have invested a lot of time, will likely get demotivated, but more importantly will loose trust: there simply cannot be a technical reason for a wipe, if there was we would understand if told (and it would have been told), hence previous statements in that regards were reassuring. Such people you cannot simply replace by new blood. I'm talking about content creators, programmers, industrialists, group leaders, etc., etc. They are the game. You may think you can recreate their/that content, but most of it was motivated by a history that cannot be recreated ... In society, you come into the world and that world has a legacy. There are always people that think that is unfair. But in the end there are also always people that just cope with it, and get to the top. I have seen this in all MMOs. People come and go, some whine, some others play, some reach heights, some others keep whining. WoW was like that, Eve was like that .. You know what? to balance unfair advantages, whether or not from legacy, that is what continues development is about in games like this: through adding new features and mechanics for accumulating wealth, to adjusting rules, and through inflation so that savings deteriorate.

More reasonable at first glance. Depends a bit on how time consuming it is to get those skill points. But if you say 125 cores before the patch drops .. then it should be fine. Edit: After reconsidering Seems still it is gonna be problematic though, since I haven't spent much in personal talents. Let me reassign all my skill points so I can at least adapt to it?

Consider the following: The French gave the statue of liberty as a gift to NY. A large object with no particular use, which is beautiful, a marvel of engineering, and has become iconic to anyone knowing about NY or the USA. Such structures have a purpose, only therefore, and to inspire and let others know that which is feasible or can be accomplished. Paris is full of mostly empty "useless" buildings, like musea, yet they are preserved because they look nice and contain nice things. Now watch what would happen to all such places, if the general public would need to invest, by own choice, directly and actively to maintain those buildings and places, and in doing so by handing over the freedom they could otherwise have used to move in themselves. IF the amount of constructs is something that needs balancing, then balance it? WHY don't you guys tax on constructs instead (like in the real world)? That together with a tax on territories would allow you to finetune a lot. And then anyone keeping alive some large construct will be forced to pay taxes and thus either find other people to help support that tax or focus his gameplay to accomplishing just that, since there is now a real trade-of to consider. You see, in this way it would come down to the same principle of needing contribution. It will be more flexible too from the player point of view. Just consider a number of scenarios with a miner, or a ship builder, or anyone really needing to make choices based on such a trade-of. You would accomplish exactly the same thing as a hard limit, but wouldn't need to impose it everyone in the same way, some will be below that limit, few above. This is not to say that the current proposed limits are ridiculous, so please don't think of a tax to reflect that. Your game attracks bright people, that have minds which need some room to express themselves.

Alright, I don't show much of what I do in-game, never dwell on a forum, but now I think NQ and those in favor of limits need to understand the implications for content already created, as this will undo most of it, unfortunately, as well as months of work in designing, planning and thinking. I uploaded a selection of pictures to my google drive, detailing much of what I have created (voxels, lua, logic, etc., but mostly cores, many many cores), should me telling you about it not suffice. Order according to last change to get it chronologically https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11SJttU8cOFdrF5GiB9VODtclWSXHxgi3?usp=sharing ) .. YET, I think everything I have built should be seen in reality, and preferably with something that flies, now that it is still there. Hence, the list below (with names corresponding to VR) .. and I get that you have many other things to do. Also, do you like really difficult puzzles?? Then, I challenge you to solve the Metacomplex. NQ should be proud that something like this is possible with their game. It was intended to be stumbled upon, but now I rather have someone try that thinks he can do what I think no one can :D. Cheers, Othon The first thing I built got shared by NQ on twitter. ** Metample, a sanctuary on sanctuary (buddha temple) ::pos{0,26,-30.9839,-42.3692,52.5819} 4 L cores which I don't use, but people pass by and think it's cool, and I go there to pray . It is a landmark, and has become part of DU more than me ... although some things are better kept in safe hands ... so an org approach to this kind of thing, meh ... buddha will cry in the end as buddha hates drama. The last thing I just finished was found by Abilton. At least one little part of it. And I am soo curious as to see what results from it. However, it might go unnoticed now and then get removed. ** The metacomplex (moon pyramid, industry, mining, grand puzzle which I think no one will ever solve) ::pos{0,22,-27.5442,24.0746,7.4763} 60 L cores This is also where I implemented one of the most complex riddles I have ever conceived of, integrated into a grand Egyptian inspired setting, integrating almost every aspect of the DU game in its design and execution. Essentially it shows what is possible with DU at a static construct level. At the metacomplex there are 4 metacubes, inspired on the movie the cube, each which need to be unlocked to unlock the complex. One cube requires finding 27 artefacts (each with their own core) that I spread across the DU world. One cube requires turning it into a magic cube. One cube needs you to hack it. And one cube requires solving a mathematical problem, that I think no one will solve. It has been worked out really really well, the way how it works, the setting, including the text provided on the help screens, the way how I detect what people finish, how the complex unlocks, the hidden corridors, and the central chamber which is the end goal and leads to an invite. So, to lose this, wouldn't only be a loss to me I hope ... Then there is: ** The metapalace (my alioth base) ::pos{0,2,-34.0790,45.0813,141.3125} Currently 15 cores, intended at 30-40 L cores (much like a water tower turned into a dark lord's dwelling) It contains easily 300h of work designing and building it, not considering the time spent to gather the resources for it. And I think it is beautiful, intricate, and a landmark, of no direct use except deepening the DU world. There is no other reason for it to exist, except people wondering when flying through the nothingness of Alioth. Then, I was commissioned to build the following for others (where I essentially got carte blanche), each of them afterwards said that NQ should hire me to build their markets (I'm not kidding) .. let me know if I can I've got ideas: ** Cor's place - Mole (storage facility, commissioned) ::pos{0,2,-58.7026,-107.8667,72.0867} 9L cores ** Tobitege's place - Pi (landing platform, commissioned, not the industry and shop) ::pos{0,2,52.0981,93.7343,5.0590} 42 L cores now partially burried :s ** Novalok's place - Hypernova (main base of operations, commissioned) ::pos{0,2,43.5765,122.8612,-32.7596} 60 L cores (Work in progress: todo central palace and side towers, so about 14 additional cores to maintain proportions) ** Abilton's news building and smart shop with magic mushroom at Utopia station 2 cores ::pos{0,0,13662337.0000,7547295.5000,-216439.2188} Part of a huge space station realized by Shockr, and note that NO community effort would be able to accomplish that .. such things are done by crazy individuals that in doing so create a community around them!!!!!!

Welcome dude!

Hi, happy to be here. Request for moderation towards authentication. Cheers, Othon