Halo381

With the bounty system being the next stretch goal, I thought it was high time we take a look at what it could mean to "set the bounty and put a price on somebody's head".
For me at least, there are three factors that are important in a bounty system:
Fun: That bounty hunting *feels* like bounty hunting, not an unlucrative fetch quest.  That it is challenging to succeed at collecting a bounty and the bounty provides a suitable reward. Fair: The average player is (relatively) safe.  The system should ensure that the game does not devolve into a gank fest. Less abusable: Ideally a system should *not* be abusable at all, but in an MMO setting where alt's are cheap, this is very difficult to achieve.  So minimizing abuse is the goal here. First, I will go through how MMO's in the past, present and future will have done their bounty system and then give a suggestion of one that could work in Dual Universe.  This might get a little long, so strap in or just skip to the suggested system at the end.
 
 
Past: Ultima Online
I have fond memories of my years spent in this fantasy MMORPG in the early 2000's.  PvP was changed multiple times over the course of the game and a bounty system was one aspect of PvP.  
 
This was "justice system" which could be triggered when a player was murdered by a player killer. Usually after a number of murders, a bounty from the victims own pocket could be placed on the murderers head.  A list of bounties could be looked up at a nearest bank.  If the murder could be found, killed, butchered and his head returned to a guard, the full bounty would be awarded.  
 
In some cases the head could be ransomed back to the murder or the murder would suffer a stat decrease for a defined period. In other cases, the murderer would lose his own money from the bank and it would be placed on his head as a bounty.  In yet other cases the murderer would suffer stat penalties for dying at the hands of a "blue" player.
 
In short, there were many different variations, but most revolved around the concept of a justice system specifically targeting perpetual player killers.
 
 
Present: EVE Online
There is no justice here: only money.  
 
Bounties in EVE can by placed on anyone, by anyone. And everyone can see all the bounties.  But a player having a bounty does not give all other players the right to kill that player anywhere, for example a bounty hunter attempting to collect in high-sec will still be attacked by the ever vigilant defenders, CONCORD. Although any where else, all bets are off.
 
The bounty is not paid to the bounty hunter in full, but is instead based on the value of the bounty targets destroyed ship starting at 20% of the actual bounty value. While this system reduces collusion to split the bounty between the bounty hunter and target, it also reduces the potential earnings of a bounty hunter, making bounty hunting less viable.
 
 
Future: Star Citizen
I say "future" because the game is not technically released yet.  The idea is that the bounty system is a justice system: bad guys (both PC and NPC) could have a bounty and good guys attempt to collect it.  That's it. Moving on.
 
But wait, you say, surely there is more?  Well yes.  But at this point it is conjecture.  For example some bounties may be "capture alive" some may be "dead or alive" perhaps depending on their misdeeds.  Star Citizen plans to have a legacy system where, after a random amount of lives , characters are permanently killed and replaced with their offspring. The offspring do get a bit of inheritance (and/or debt) and there is a slight neutralizing of reputation.  The bounties will probably simply disappear on death.
 
The take home point here is that this is a justice system.
 
 
A note on abusing bounty systems
The simplest way to abuse a bounty system in a free trade game is to have the bounty target and the bounty hunter collude.  The bounty hunter brings in the target and they split the bounty 50/50.
In Ultima Online, there was an inherent loss of skills at death and skills are really difficult to increase. 
In EVE the target must lose more than the bounty but bounties are so unlucrative that they no longer feel like bounty hunting.
In Star Citizen, a character will have limited number of lives (for that character at least), so death may mean losing that incarnation of your character.
But why collusion is not an issue is that it requires trust.  Trust that the bounty hunter will not just take all the money after the bounty target rolls over.
I am sure there are other ways to abuse a bounty system but these I leave for another post.
Suggestion for Dual Universe
Dual Universe is about giving players tools to run systems, not to have systems run the players.  That said, none of the above example bounty systems really tick all the boxes. So a suggestion is as follows:
Create a bounty: A bounty can be placed on anyone by anyone (minimum amounts on the bounty apply).  This moves the bounty system away from being a justice system tied to reputation and makes it another useful tool in the DU belt.  This, on its own, does break the "fair" goal, since anyone can be targeted but a single point does not a system make. Read on.
  Get the contract: A bounty contract can only be picked up at a special terminal and is chosen from a randomly generated list of say 10 nameless bounties with a last known location (with a possibility of a reroll within a set time frame). Only those with the correct bounty contract can claim the bounty.  This means a list of bounties may be optionally published, but they will have no effect since only allowed bounty hunters with the correct contracts will be able to collect.  This makes investing into bounty hunting skills viable as it would be possible to tier bounties.
But why contracts?  This means the game won't devolve into a griefer gank-fest.
  Accept the contract: Once a contract is accepted, the bounty's name is revealed can track the target, the name remains unknown. A bounty hunter can only have a set number of bounty contracts active at one time and this does not preclude others from gaining the same contract. There should be some potential for competition after all. Also there is no auto tracking built in at best a proximity beep.
  Completing the bounty: The bounty hunter kills the target and gains the full bounty amount.  A bounty should be completed within a time frame (say a month) of being accepted or the bounty hunter will suffer a penalty (e.g. monetary loss and/or temporary loss of skills). Likewise the target could suffer a temporary loss of skills. This is a broad outline of a system and definitely still needs details filled in, but as you can see from the earlier examples, a bounty system is far from easy and straight forward.
 
Do you like what you see here? Do you have ideas for a bounty system? Feel free to discuss.
 
P.S. A further insightful video on the subject.

Keep in mind that this game is currently in Pre-Alpha, and thus Alpha is not quite here yet, much less Beta. When both of them come around, they will both be announced by NQ, so you will be free to keep an eye on the forums and wait until those announcements are made.

Hello fellow conscious being,
 
As of the writing of this post, I’ve been a part of the DU community for 366 days (since 12th September 2016) (allowing for time dilation), the early Kickstarter days of DU. Although that is certainly not an achievement compared to many others of this community who have been here for two years or more, I have seen the good the bad and the ugly of this community, the former of which has been the most prevalent to me. I’d like to take a couple minutes of your time to both finally introduce myself on the forums, and to provide a commentary on my experiences with this awesome community.
 
My name in this virtual universe is Soarnir, I found Dual Universe through the Kickstarter campaign while casually browsing through the games section of the website. The name was catchy and the goal was interesting, one click later and I’m reading through the entire page, enthralled by the prospect of a video game dream coming true. I wanted to know more, see how far the game had come, what the community was like. A couple seconds later and I find the forums and the community site. Impressing me was the development so far, that the meta was so evolved was astounding to me, especially for a game that no one would be able to touch for several months (in regard to the planned Alpha date then). I create an account on the community site on the 12th September 2016, and it really just escalates from there.
 
Perhaps I should introduce parts of the real me as well. I'm a gamer, through and through, I've hardly lived long enough to have experienced every type of game there is, but to say I have little experience would be a lie. I started fiddling with computers and hardware before I was 10, and built my first PC not long after that, all the while starting to learn the basics of programming by sitting in my school library reading through giant textbooks for different programming languages. Attempting to keep up my interest ever since, I've now got a fairly broad, yet limited at times, experience covering Java, web development, databases and server management. I have run several communities over the years, including old minecraft servers back in the beta days, helped manage forums and administrate/moderate several discord communities. I'd hardly argue I'm great, but I'm good at what I do, and I do my utmost to be approachable and attentive (even when people refer to me as the devil) of server chemistry as people grow to enjoy being a part of it. Now I'm in the midst of my gap year after graduating, and sleeping to 9+am for over a few months really does make you incredibly relaxed. But that's enough of that, let's talk DU and my experiences with the community.
 
Having used discord for over a year prior to finding DU, I was pleasantly surprised to find that there was an unofficial community one already up and running, and it becomes the first DU oriented discord I join, in the midst of the Kickstarter, no less. As you can imagine, and most of you recall, it was hectic. Nail biting, chart checking, the continuous discussion in every discord every day. The amazing contributions from many community members already being prevalent during this time, people reaching out to friends and contacts, getting people hyped more and more. New creations, videos, art, content, and more. It was absolutely stunning and thrilling at the same time.
 
In the midst of all of this, I find Cinderfall, or rather, their recruitment message on the unofficial DU discord, and the community site. Seeing that it was already fairly established, as well as connected to a large number of orgs, I decided that if I wanted to get into the proper political meta of the game, this is where I should start. I send an application on the community site and join the discord to be greeted immediately by Neopolitan and Astrophil, the directors of CSYN at the time. What I see is a truly impressive sight, over 10 organizations already established, taking part in an organizational umbrella, months before any kind of game will be released. A couple weeks later after several discussions and interviews, I'm one of Cinderfall's new magistrates, in charge of diplomatic action and the Grand Assembly. Being a part of such a politically involved entity and helping it grow has been a remarkable experience. Allowing for a couple events that transpired afterwards, like the ever famous Battle of Poolamoo (#neverforget) and some pretty hefty changes to the way CSYN operates, as well as several mistakes and learning experiences thrown into the mix. Cut to a few months ago, when I officially become Cinderfall's newest Director, an achievement for me, and a promise to continue to work to my utmost in all situations.
 
Alongside my work in CSYN, I've helped moderate and administrate the unofficial community discord since March 2017 as well as worked on a discord bot which was released in a new form less than a week ago. 
 
I'd like to end on a tribute to the developers, NovaQuark, for helping foster this absolutely amazing community. I thank you graciously for showing the world that transparency truly is the key to winning over your players' hearts and that despite what other companies decide to do, you've proven that it is a healthy and sustainable model for developer-player interaction. I want to thank you for your incredible perseverance in a post-no man's sky world, and I applaud you for the way you've handled everything that's come in your way so far. I look forward with even greater enthusiasm than ever, to your continued support of the community.
 
Thanks,
Soarnir

Hey there folks! Long time no see! Chromion has been kind of under the radar for a while, after all there isn't much for us to do. However, with Alpha right around the corner, I figured it's time for Chromion Industrial's Ad Campaign!!!!!!
 
........
 
Okay, so maybe not. But I am here to remind you all that we still exist, and that we're still looking for new members! I'd also like to remind everyone that Chromion is not just a Mining Corporation. We dabble in all aspects of Industry. Research and Development, Shipbuilding, and Mining. We also have a Navy, for anyone interested in making things go boom outside of the lab. And of course, lets not forget, you lot get paid for joining and working with us. If nothing else, at least that should get your attention, am I right? While the figures are obscure since we don't really have an idea of how much anything will cost yet, you would make a weekly salary by working for us, and for every job you completed that week you'd also have payment for that added onto your salary. As long as you're a member of our organization, you shall receive payment for furthering our goals. Just remember: You won't get paid for a week if you didn't work that week. 
 
Before I sign off, I'd like to note: at launch, no one is going to have a lot of... well, anything really. With the exception of manpower, every organization will be on the exact same playing field: that is to say, Broke. No one will have resources, no one will have money. I apologize in advance if my members are unable to receive a salary, or if their salaries are rather small during the early days of the game. However, after we get off our feet, you will be getting paid, make no mistake. 
 
That's all for now folks. I hope you all are having a lovely week. Stay tuned for more updates, and remember: Rise high, and cast your shadow over the world!
Sincerely, Halo381

So, considering Discord is the widely used communications program throughout our community here, thought it would be a good idea to rally up some support to get a feature request to go through that every group here could benefit from. There are several threads on the Discord site for this so I listed below the best ones to vote for. (imo)
 
SHARE PLEASE - Just copy the link below and share it across any other discord servers you are apart of. 
 
EDIT (Use this one) - https://feedback.discordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/13510158-add-ability-to-shout-talk-to-all-channels-for-larg
 
Channel Commander - https://feedback.discordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/10590876-chan-commander-to-speak-to-another-commander-on
 
Note: There are some other threads made for this request, but this one is what we found to be matching what we think best suits our and DUs needs.
 
 
 
Granted, there are already several VCs that do have this feature, the point is to keep everything within one app versus spreading everyone across multiple communication apps. While we don't know specifics for DU in how communication will work, we do know that Discord isn't exactly friendly when it comes to large crowds in Voice Chat channels. 
 
If you can take the time to upvote that feature, we can bump it up on the priority list for the developers to get it going. It doesn't take any effort but signing in to your Discord account and clicking that upvote icon. 
 
Thanks,
Cybrex

Hello to all,
 In light of recent events I feel it necessary to address my organization as of now to clarify some unclear perceptions. Obviously there was a lot of commotion recently but not many seem to realise that the previous UL/TVR were not all alts and it was greatly unfair to those who were genuine. I have founded my Organization "Imperii Purpurae" to facilitate to those who's org(s) have been abolished, to give them somewhere to go where there are similar people in the same situation. There seemed to be a bit of confusion with my intentions - In no way is Imperii Purpurae a remake of any previous organization(s), The only reason that it was vaguely associated with UL was to try and band those members together under familiar members/colleges and give them a chance to help found anew, without the constraints of the Slaxx or the branding from the the MM. Under no circumstances are any former UL/TVR members to feel pressured or obligated to join Imperii Purpurae. As most orgs have already been well established I thought this would be the perfect time to found mine, It'll give a chance to any people who want to form governments, attain high positions and figuratively lead a new force of people as  the chances of them attaining such positions in other large orgs so close to Beta would almost be a mute point. We will be structured very differently from the previous TVR/UL and all of our members will be given opportunities to join the the odyssey of forming new systems, structures and relationships. I don't mean to say that anyone couldn't achieve these things in other orgs but as we are new there is a lot of work to be done and we are running a very open 'government' at the moment as we are taking all suggestions and everyone is encouraged to come with something new to implement. 
 We will be likely to ally with as many other orgs as possible; we are really considering multiple options, primarily Cinderfall, Elderich, Obsido Accords, DUA and the Solar Empire. We also require more members to fill out these administrative/diplomatic positions so we can begin functioning well before Alpha goes live.
 
Best of luck to everyone who was caught up in that mess and my apologise to any confusion caused.
 -Banana

Welcome to the Cinderfall Syndicate Department of Defense! The Defense Department is looking for the best and brightest to join its ranks in serving and defending the largest alliance in Dual Universe. The Department is simple and efficient, with only two agencies:
  Joint Syndicate Defense Force (JSDF): The largest and most heavy-duty agency in the Defense Department. The JSDF has a strict chain of command dedicated to the safety of the Cinderfall Syndicate’s Member Organizations, where only the best will rise to the top.   Special Task Force (STF): This elite group of operatives executes special missions and operations requiring surgical precision and finesse. Cinderfall-only membership required.   Membership with the Cinderfall Syndicate or a Cinderfall Member Organization is required to enlist, along with dedication, skill, and activity.    1. Please complete a short application form to enlist → https://goo.gl/forms/oNQqzdpelNK6u4Rz1 2. Be sure to join Cinderfall's Discord server and community portal. 3. Contact Halo381 (Chief of Defense) with any questions or concerns!   Let your dreams take flight.

- Yeah, you just have to be open with every piece of information and use every possible means so people believe you
 
 
To the other points of Shynras and ATM:
 
I think you misunderstood the main intention of DUHS. We're not neccessarily only a news site. We record history.
I only mentioned that you would gain access to some areas of an org which ARE NOT public because they want to show off their creation. Like the first org which built a death star. Or the first org which build a city on the moon. If you get a certain reputation and trust that we, DUHS, are only here to record history, we might be contacted by those orgs so that they can brag about it - because DUHS might have a huge reach within the community. This would be the only news we're interested in where we would need access - because such things are historically important.
 
OFC no one in their right mind will grant you access to a base or some secret chamber - and that's not the intention.
 
If some alliance disbands or two orgs form a mega cluster, we would just do an interview.
We would only do interviews in the streets of tortuga for example, recording impressions of the city while talking to cybrex. Or talk to astrophil while we walk the palace of emberstone. Such kind of things.
 
The main difference to eve here is, that we probably don't have perma cloaks - so reporters can't just watch without risk.

Hi there,
 
I'm writing this post on behalf of the DUHS (Dual Universe Historical Society)
 
We just came up with an idea:
 
As we know, every account can have three characters. What would you do with the other 2 alts?
 
We were thinking of maybe an alt like: DUHS-Writer Lethys
 
Here a few prerequisites:
 
- Such an alt would only be skilled to fly the most basic ship (later on maybe the most basic FTL ship)
- No weapon / AVA / CVC skills allowed
- No defensive (to be seen....) skills allowed
- No weapons on person or on that ship
- No trespassing of territory
- Only approved members of DUHS (maybe a public list with main character names too)
- be polite, ask before doing/recording stuff,... - don't be a jerk
- You're not allowed to use such an alt in any other way than recording stuff for DUHS (so you can't get access to a market hub your main char is banned from)
- No usage of devices which could be used to spy on others (like scanners)
- IF there is an API or something for skills, such alts have to make this API publicly available so that others can look up their skills in order to control them
 
So such an alt would only be used to record an ongoing battle for example as bystander. Or make a live-stream and comment on it (as players may be widely spread later on and can't participate if they wish). You could also record/showcase the latest model of a ship or city (let's say ODY will be very famous and are the first ones to build a deathstar for example). You could do interviews with people who witnessed something while walking through their city. Stuff like that - I think you get the idea.
 
Ofc an org would only give such alts the clearance to access their more or less public spaces - maybe later, once the reputation and trust is built, certain members get access to more restricted areas where special projects are highlighted, new techs are revealed, whatever - not a must though.
 
This is not about spying and infiltrating (as you don't get access to anything secret anyway), it's solely about recording the history of DU.
 
Let us hear your thoughts on this one

Welcome to the Cinderfall Syndicate Department of Defense! The Defense Department is looking for the best and brightest to join its ranks in serving and defending the largest alliance in Dual Universe. The Department is simple and efficient, with only two agencies:
  Joint Syndicate Defense Force (JSDF): The largest and most heavy-duty agency in the Defense Department. The JSDF has a strict chain of command dedicated to the safety of the Cinderfall Syndicate’s Member Organizations, where only the best will rise to the top.   Special Task Force (STF): This elite group of operatives executes special missions and operations requiring surgical precision and finesse. Cinderfall-only membership required.   Membership with the Cinderfall Syndicate or a Cinderfall Member Organization is required to enlist, along with dedication, skill, and activity.    1. Please complete a short application form to enlist → https://goo.gl/forms/oNQqzdpelNK6u4Rz1 2. Be sure to join Cinderfall's Discord server and community portal. 3. Contact Halo381 (Chief of Defense) with any questions or concerns!   Let your dreams take flight.

This is sketchy...

If I had to pick between "for free / low price to appease more" and "sustainable pricing to afford staff and tech to make this a reality as intended" then I would pick the more sustainable model.
 
Everything has a price. I will pay a bit more or in the first place if I get something proper in return and from the looks of it, this game will already be better than the average (theme park) MMORPG you also pay roughly a dozen bucks for.
 
A dozen bucks or a bit more (per month) for a vast universe with emergent gameplay and with the option to obtain game time by playing?
 
Sounds like a good deal.

Hey man I totally agree with you, I mean who would pay $156 a year for a game? Nobody!!!
 
I mean, it's not like there are over 15 million people playing subscription model MMOs right now who pay more than that XD

So... the game is of infinite rating in your eyes... but deserves not the price-tag of an infinitely rated game...









































































































...what.

How much does a typical gamer spend on hardware and software for gaming in a year? This is the price of roughly 3 AAA game titles per year, so roughly 4 months per AAA game.
 
How many xbox one games really have 4 months worth of steady game content? There are a few sure, but 3 per year? Unlikely.
 
Sandbox game junkies often spend tons of hours all in one game. MMO players often spend tons of hours all in one game. The kinds of players that will appreciate DU are the kinds for which $156/year breaks down into a very small and reasonable $/hour ratio. For the players that have the most time to play and the least income, there is a good chance it'll break down to $0/year with the ability to trade for game time in the in-game market. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
 
EDIT for an additional point
 
-Gaming is a hobby, and hobbies can sometimes be expensive. For someone who plans to play a bit each day, or have longer binge-sessions on the weekend, this could be considered someone's primary hobby. The advantage here is that if someone decides that they no longer want to play, they can stop paying and allocate future funds towards something else.
 
Lastly this model ensures that the Developers will be able to create regular expansions, which will keep the game in a place where we want to have it as a primary hobby.

You can play for free too if you're active enough and make enough in-game money.
 
If not, there's the door. No one forces you to play
 
And I won't even start on why there is this sub because you know, if you can't ask politely, I won't do either

*Captain Twerkmotor memes incoming*

Woops.

Frequently there are new topics which contain large amounts of text, i.e. people who type up a lot of what may be on their mind about the game, and then post it. People who reply to this topic then quote the entire original post in their reply even though they are the first one replying, and then they themselves may only respond with a sentence or two of their own. In situations like this, I think we can all figure out what you are responding to, without the need of a quote... If there are zero replies, it is quite unnecessary indeed to put the entire original post into your reply as a quote.
 
The same goes for all of the first few messages in a topic. If you are responding to the original post, even if you are the third or even fifth reply, you do not usually need to quote the whole thing; a topic can be read like a conversation. A quote is for longer discussions where you are replying to specific other posts; or, if the topic is something like multiple pages, then it is of course much more appropriate to quote the original post. If you believe that if you do not quote the original post people may be confused with which post you are responding to, then in that particular situation it is more appropriate to put the quote in. Of course, if you are responding to a post that isn't the original, then by all means quote who you're responding to!
 
The thing about these forums is that quotes are black with white text, and regular posts are a different shade of black with a different shade of white text. It is not always easy to immediately identify where a quote ends and where the post begins; and when I go into a new topic and see a three paragraph original post, then scroll down to find the first three replies are all quoting the entire original post and responding with a just few sentences of their own, it just makes everything a pain to read, especially on mobile (the desktop mode of mobile that is).
 
 
I point at no one in particular, and take no hostile action against or have an ill feelings towards anyone that does what I'm advocating against. It's just something I've noticed a lot and feel the forums would be cleaner if people just put a little more thought into whether or not they actually need a quote in their post.
 
That's the point of this whole topic; please just put a little bit more thought into what you are quoting when you reply. Ask yourself if it is really necessary.

Hi everyone!
 
I'd like to present a very special Cinderfall project today: Cinderfall TV! This is our first broadcast of CSYN TV, focused on Dual Universe this time. We will be using Cinderfall TV to bring everyone the latest gaming news and updates, as well as Dual Universe's in-game news in our special Dual Universe Edition broadcasts. Watch the broadcast below - we hope you enjoy!
 
P.S. Huge special thx to Code24 and FancyVader for their help editing and voicing the broadcast! It's great to have you on the team!
 

 
Look out for more in the coming months!

Or you could just hire a competent crew.

It sounds like the developers are getting close to the final versions of some elements.  When they are done, I hope they tell us the length, width and height of each one.  That information would be helpful when designing constructs that use them.

Hey retired Samurai. I can tell you're new, because if you weren't, you would know that everyone spawns at the arkship.
 
everyone
 
While yes, eventually people will be able to respawn at ressurection nodes, that won't eliminate social interaction at all.
 
In addition to that, at the start, we will only be able to reach a few planets. We won't be able to expand until certain advances are made.
 
Basically, we won't have any trouble finding each other.

Everyone starts at the Arkship in one region. ALL players. People wont have that much trouble finding each other until some orgs develop their first interplanetary ship and bugger off.

As far as I know, there is not any current plans to limit stargates based on mass. When you get down to it, it is a matter of lore and how they decide gates "work". Personally I see different sized gates being more of a pain than anything. Perhaps they could add a "black ops gate" that is much smaller and easier to deploy but has some severe limitations to mass transfer or range. I could see that being useful for smuggling or infiltrating a hostile star system.
 
 
I do really like the idea of being able to restrict gate connections, but that then creates the problem of bottlenecks, gate camps and other kind of bleh things. I know you will be able to restrict who can connect to a gate based on permissions and such, but those can be bypassed. I do hope that the way gates work do promote some trade routes or space highways, since those are what give space it's geography.