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Industrial Areas

industrial areas industry economy landscaping

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13 replies to this topic

#1
Omfgreenhair

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Hello!

 

I'd like to discuss what you envisage our industrial areas would look like. 

 

That question does imply there will be industrial areas, which is only natural when the primary occupation and game element at the start is gathering resources and build things. An industrial area simply is a natural phenomena when big projects are set up. The bigger the project, the more logistics, more storage, more mineral processing. 

All in all, Novaquark can -say- large scale industrialisation isn't going  to be part of the game... but ya'll know better. When the chance is there for mass production, the chance will be taken. 

 

So without any further a do, lets discuss. 

 

With the current game mechanics and game mechanics planned ahead, how do you envisage an industrial area will look like? 


- "Trust the profit motive! Capitalism is love, capitalism is life! Money is your only basic need you'll ever need to live!" -


#2
Lethys

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I have no idea what you intend to say with this :D

 

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you have in mind? What bonuses? What drawbacks? How implement it? Why implement it in the first place?



#3
Falstaf

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All in all, Novaquark can -say- large scale industrialisation isn't going to be part of the game... but ya'll know better. When the chance is there for mass production, the chance will be taken.


I think you misunderstood.
There wont be automated autonomous mass production. Some products will be mass produced but you cant have an entire production chain without humans.

At least thats how I understood it.
//

I can imagine an industrial zone forming around a very mineral rich deposit. It makes a lot of sense to refine and trade the ore close to the mine. Its more economical time wise and it might provide added security trading the ore directly on site.
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#4
Lethys

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Ahhhhh.......lol sorry I'm slow tonight :D

 

well, as you said, industrial areas will be a natural thing in DU. Why ship that ore for 20km when you can just build a refinery next to the dig site. If it's a huge vein with lots of people involved, you'd need defenses too. Military housings, turrets (ground and air), shelters and, ofc, all the industrial stuff like refineries, printers, hangars and lots of people.

 

Depending on the veins and location, you could even build a shield generator there to be safe (well, somewhat :)).

 

But if you're only mining with your buddies (or alone) I would just dig a base nearby, hide the entrance to that base and live there. Oh and don't forget to hide that mining shaft too....



#5
Omfgreenhair

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Hahaha that's ok. What I want, is to open the discussion for when large sums of players bond together to build a large project or commence a large mining operation... what happens in between? How will a Dual Universe version of an industrial area look like? 

 

If I had to answer your questions more directly:

Bonuses:

- Mineral processing and storage near each other

- Employment for security companies

- Large scale supply answers large scale demand

 

Drawbacks:
- Easily to get messy because it requires a lot of human input

- If an area gets attacked it could seriously choke economy and or production (both military and commercial)

 

How implement it:
- simple, it's player designed so it can be implemented anywhere. 
- build a place ships can park and unload > unloaded goods can be stored for processing > goods gets processed > processed goods can be stored > place goods can transport goods to market or designated projects.

Why implement it:
- Because if you wish build something that requires more people than you got fingers, you need to organise. An industrial area offers organisation. 
- Because if civilisation is a body, the industrial area is the stomach

(Oeps, end of my shift, gotta skip to home, will explain later)


- "Trust the profit motive! Capitalism is love, capitalism is life! Money is your only basic need you'll ever need to live!" -


#6
Lethys

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Hahaha that's ok. What I want, is to open the discussion for when large sums of players bond together to build a large project or commence a large mining operation... what happens in between? How will a Dual Universe version of an industrial area look like? 

 

If I had to answer your questions more directly:

Bonuses:

- Mineral processing and storage near each other

- Employment for security companies

- Large scale supply answers large scale demand

 

Drawbacks:
- Easily to get messy because it requires a lot of human input

- If an area gets attacked it could seriously choke economy and or production (both military and commercial)

 

How implement it:
- simple, it's player designed so it can be implemented anywhere. 
- build a place ships can park and unload > unloaded goods can be stored for processing > goods gets processed > processed goods can be stored > place goods can transport goods to market or designated projects.

Why implement it:
- Because if you wish build something that requires more people than you got fingers, you need to organise. An industrial area offers organisation. 
- Because if civilisation is a body, the industrial area is the stomach

(Oeps, end of my shift, gotta skip to home, will explain later)

 

 

yeah, yeah I get it now.....first I thought you meant some sort of element/base tile or something, that's why I asked those questions....blonde moment there by me, myself and I.

 

I really think this boils down to a simple equation: risk vs reward. Can you defend it? How many people you need to pay? What's the cost of all that infrastructure you need? Is it even feasible (large enough vein, rare ore,...)? Have there been pirates around? How well is your intel? Do you have friends around somewhere?

 

Depending on those (and more) aspects, you can develop such a complex. But I think most bases in DU will be underground....and hidden....so I image more like an industrial city like Menzoberranzan



#7
Lynkx

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I'm looking forward to make my ship factory some where close to the ark ship, 
under its shield inside the peaceful zone. I'd like to have a very nice and organized factory.

I love to create factories and chain production lines. 

 

I'd like to know if NQ guys know the Minecraft industrial mods like:
Industrial Craft 2, Thermal Expansion, Applied Energetics, thermal power, ultimate solar power
and already have tested a full configured industrial Minecraft.

I also like to know if could be possible on later point of the game some kind of similar tools like those.  
So we, the players that love to create, could make a very nice factory plant. 
 


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#8
yamamushi

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I imagine industries will start small, with people localizing their production needs to where their resources are.

 

However, as time goes on, and the scale of production needs to accommodate the number of players and the size of constructs they envisage, that massive industrial zones will start to pop up around the galaxy. 

 

I don't foresee major industrial hubs popping up in every solar system, instead, I see them occurring regionally. 

 

We don't really know how many or what kinds of resources will be necessary to create things like refineries, so perhaps the cost of building them will be so expensive that it would defeat the purpose of trying to build them near every single resource vein. If it costs more to produce your refinery than you're actually taking out of the ground, then it makes more sense to ship them up somewhere centrally.

 

 

I suggest that the "industrial hub" of Alioth will be near the safe zone, if only because the early players will want to protect their investments (which arguably would lower in price as time goes on, but they're going to want to keep their things safe in the beginning). 

 

It also makes more sense to ship your materials somewhere centrally located, because if it's a major central location, then the cost of shipping there will be cheaper than somewhere on the fringes of space where nobody goes. Why? Because if you're a freight runner, you want to prioritize your deliveries based on places where you can pick up new shipments and turn around easily and go somewhere with a new shipment. If you're shipping things to the far edges of space, you should charge more because of the time it will take you to pick up a new shipment if there is nobody around to pick one up from. 

 

This would be especially true in the early-game, where people carrying cargo are going to want to make the trip worth their time. 

 

I don't foresee people creating refineries and other manufacturing needs by themselves on day one, and because we've been told that the Arkship may have some of those things pre-built and ready for players to use, that is yet another reason that the safe zone may become the first major industrial hub. 

 

Does it make more sense to transport your items into the safe zone to be refined, and then shipped back out to where you are, or does it make more sense to keep your production needs closer to where things are being refined? Although I suppose one could also just sell their raw resources and buy refined ones to be shipped back to them, or work out a trade deal with other organizations/people/whatever.

 

 

I know that many organizations and players want to just do everything by themselves, but the lack of equipment in the early game may force the evolution of the industrial zone (around the Arkship) that I foresee. There won't be any raw resources to pull out of the ground there, at least no valuable ones, but there will be plenty of refined resources to buy from other players there. 

 

 

Also, starting players won't have the skills necessary to actually construct the elements they need to begin their own remote industrial zones (again going back to the idea that people will build near their resources), which is another thing that will somewhat force people to stick around the Arkship at the beginning. 

 

 

We will, of course, see industrial zones pop up that are focused towards specific projects (shipyards, space stations, etc., anything that requires a lot of resources to produce). But the density of players always coming into the Arkship zone will make it the predominant one. 

 

And any zone that pops up will be relative to the count of players actually there at any given time. If a giant organization creates a massive industrial system that allows them to produce ships at a huge scale, that will only last as long as there are actually players there to manage the zone. If it's discovered that it is more cost effective to move their industrial operations to another part of space (another planet, another solar system perhaps) for any number of reasons, then that once dense zone might become a ghost town over time.

 

 

Just throwing my random thoughts into the mix.


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#9
mefsh

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I'm looking forward to make my ship factory some where close to the ark ship, 
under its shield inside the peaceful zone. I'd like to have a very nice and organized factory.

I love to create factories and chain production lines. 

 

I'd like to know if NQ guys know the Minecraft industrial mods like:
Industrial Craft 2, Thermal Expansion, Applied Energetics, thermal power, ultimate solar power
and already have tested a full configured industrial Minecraft.

I also like to know if could be possible on later point of the game some kind of similar tools like those.  
So we, the players that love to create, could make a very nice factory plant. 
 

I believe in some interview JC said he had been playing a IC2, and some elements from that would probably make it into the game.

 

But I am not sure exactly what he said, that's just what I remember.


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#10
yamamushi

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I believe in some interview JC said he had been playing a IC2, and some elements from that would probably make it into the game.

 

But I am not sure exactly what he said, that's just what I remember.

 

That would be the DU Explorers interview with JC:

 

https://youtu.be/H9Y0YmqGYDM?t=1569

 

or if you don't want to watch it:

 

http://dualuniverse....tive_Influences

 

 

"(Interviewer) Awesome, so I heard… did you play vanilla minecraft or did you play modded minecraft or both?

 

Both, in the modded minecraft I played something called industrial-craft and I think this is really cool, and we will probably, and again maybe not at release but in the long term view, I would like to have something that is fairly complex on the industrial side so you can have chemistry, refining, intermediary machines you need to build.  So you need… building an industrial  {?} chain would be  {?} extremely inspiring. Again, probably not in the release of the game, I’m saying that all the time but we have to be clear, but this is the kind of things we like.  And I like a lot."

 


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#11
Lynkx

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That would be the DU Explorers interview with JC:

 

"(Interviewer) Awesome, so I heard… did you play vanilla minecraft or did you play modded minecraft or both?

 

Both, in the modded minecraft I played something called industrial-craft and I think this is really cool, and we will probably, and again maybe not at release but in the long term view, I would like to have something that is fairly complex on the industrial side so you can have chemistry, refining, intermediary machines you need to build.  So you need… building an industrial  {?} chain would be  {?} extremely inspiring. Again, probably not in the release of the game, I’m saying that all the time but we have to be clear, but this is the kind of things we like.  And I like a lot."

 

 

I haven't watched the interview yet but this is great news !!
I had played a lot industrial style moded minecraft
I hope, when time comes, they can check the other mods i told, Because Industrial craft 2 is just 
a small part of minecraft industrial game play.  
In fact I will open a topic about some minecraft great mods that could be relevant 

\o/


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#12
Omfgreenhair

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Really happy with how this thread turned out! Glad to see we have so much in common and people are genuinely interested in setting up production/processing chains. I look forward in working together and keep a steady eye on the evolution of our industry!

I too think the safe zones will be priority places to build industrial hubs and am very pleased to hear JC has had much fun with Minecraft mods such as IC2. This is a good sign, especially for people like Lynkx and me!


- "Trust the profit motive! Capitalism is love, capitalism is life! Money is your only basic need you'll ever need to live!" -


#13
Larry_Tincreek

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I too think the safe zones will be priority places to build industrial hubs and am very pleased to hear JC has had much fun with Minecraft mods such as IC2. This is a good sign, especially for people like Lynkx and me!

 

I actually hope industry in safe zones will be somewhat gimped. For example only the most basic forms of production could be enabled, and/or there could be a significant waste of resources in the production. If not something like that is implemented industrialists in the safe zones would have an unfair advantage over those in the "wild", because they don't risk being raided and don't have to spend time and money on security.

 

Outside of safe zones I think facilities might predominantly be under ground for protection, like Lethys also mentioned. I wonder how common and how large cave systems will be. If they are large it may be easier to build in natural caves rather than having to dig out thousands (maybe even millions for the really big complexes?) of tons of rock. On the other hand making a base and industry in a natural cave system would almost certainly make for rather awkward logistics. Of course you could dig some extra tunnels to help on that.



#14
Omfgreenhair

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I actually hope industry in safe zones will be somewhat gimped. 

 

I whole heartedly hope not by NQ themselves. The rent price for holding a plot of land inside the safe zone would rise significantly on it's own because it's inside the safe zone and transporting high value minerals to the safe zone would also mean high risk of getting capped before reaching the dome.

 

These two are the downside of having an industrial area in the safe zone. Don't think of these area's as something that could run on it's own. They need a constant daily investment, but wanted property (inside the safe zone) costs more. 
This opens up the viability of local industrial area's which are smaller and easy to defend but can process high tier ores faster because they are near the high yield vines of said minerals. 

Also transporting to safe zones isn't only dangerous but also eats up a lof of time and as the good Goblins of WoW repeatedly remind us: "Time is money, friend!"


- "Trust the profit motive! Capitalism is love, capitalism is life! Money is your only basic need you'll ever need to live!" -






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