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New PLEX System in EVE, and What DACs can learn from it.

DACs PLEX Finance Trade Debate

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#1
Lord_Void

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So as some people may or may not know, EVE Online just announced some changes to its long held PLEX system, which the DU DAC system is heavily based off of. Based on the reactions of people, I thought it might be worth discussing that here and what people do and don't like about the changes they made.

 

First off: what was the old system?

 

The traditional system goes like this: Player A buys a PLEX from CCP for real money and then receives the PLEX in their character's inventory. Player A can then redeem the PLEX for one month of subscription time or sell that PLEX to Player B for ingame money/items. It's an elegant system that let's people play for free or gather more currency, depending on their circumstances without making the game be pay-to-win. DU's DAC system will function a lot like this. 

 

Today, they announced several changes: They split each PLEX into 500 pieces. They created a "PLEX Vault" which allows players to keep their PLEX safe. They merged PLEX with their other currency for buying cosmetic items.

 

The idea behind this seems to be to make PLEX more accessible and easier to deal with, as well as reducing the need to have multiple ways to buy cosmetic items since they are all now going to be using the same currency. Not to mention trying to entice more people to buy it. However, there are some common criticisms I noticed. 500 is not a very good number to divide a month into; it would be much better to divide it into something like 720 so that each piece would be worth an hour. You still need to gather one month's worth of PLEX to actually redeem it, so cutting it down into smaller increments is rather pointless. The PLEX Vault is poorly explained so it may provide a way of eliminating the risk of transporting PLEX. Dividing it into more items might cause the overall price to rise. 

 

I do like the idea of having it in slightly smaller increments, like perhaps each DAC represents a week of game time, and could be redeemed as such.

 

What does everyone else think?


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#2
Dark

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Tbh I think its over complicating a very simple system. There isn't much point of splitting the DAC/PLEX into seperate pieces when you need a months equivalent to redeem it anyway. Except maybe to see your process towards the sub. I haven't played EVE so im not that familiar with the system, but in the end just see it as not needed.
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#3
Lord_Void

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Tbh I think its over complicating a very simple system. There isn't much point of splitting the DAC/PLEX into seperate pieces when you need a months equivalent to redeem it anyway. Except maybe to see your process towards the sub. I haven't played EVE so im not that familiar with the system, but in the end just see it as not needed.

 

Yeah. I agree that what they are doing is over complicating it. That's why I think that if DACs were to copy any of this, it would be to make it so each "sub-DAC" could be redeemed for a week. Basically the same system that exists now but in slightly smaller increments. 


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#4
Lights

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i liek ccp's idea but not the quantity, i believe each Plex/DAC piece should be split into days. 30 plex/DAC.

 

But we all know our opinions will be drowned out by all the non-EVE players lets be honest here :D


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#5
CaptainTwerkmotor

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To be honest, the new system EVE implemented is a result of its new shareholders. They just want to milk EVE's playerbase on its last ossible revenue and call it a day. That 30 million worth of stock won't balance itself out. So, instead of CCP admitting openly that "hey, we want to ditch PLEX and simply make the game Freemium", they named their new Premium Currency as PLEX.

Why? Cause last time they made something like that the game lost 30% of its playerbase and CCP lost hundreds of millions in damages, so they now play it safe. PLEX is their new Freemium Currency.

And CCP don't care, they got Project Nova to move into. They tried upgrading the game in the past, it backfired horribly (Incarna) then they tried to make it cross-platform (DUST-514), and they realised they can't push EVE any further with the engine they have built it on. So, instead of saying "hey guys, we're going to shut down EVE" they just go like "hey, add a new PLEX system, let's keep EVE profitable before it's tie to take it out the back and shoot the old girl on the head". I see it how it is. This is not CCP introducing and updating the PLEX system, this is CCP performing a controlled demolition.

The previous PLEX system was self-explanatory, the info tab on it spelled out exactly how it worked.


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#6
Caesares

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In general, I do not like subscriptions, but I think that if subscriptions are necessary, they should have several essential elements.

 

- Affordability: Even if this is provided by a sub-par or standard type of subscription, perhaps below a 'golden' subscription or something equivalent to it, there should be an easy way to get into a game, maybe a first-time buyers discount (based on credit card to stop fraud) so that people can join in more easily.

 

- Free play possible: I don't really have to say much about this, judging by what I head it is already possible, and the title sums it up. 

 

- Safety: There has to be an easy way for a new player who just started out to be able to buy subscription points, and then not get robbed at gunpoint, killed, etc. This could be solved with an online 1% or no transaction fee market for premium items, like subscriptions.


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#7
mefsh

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First I never got far enough into eve to actually use a Plex, so this is coming from what I know or heard about them.

 

This new system complicates things to much in my opinion. One Plex equals 30 day game time was very simple.

 

The vault though is a good idea. When we get are Dacs from pledging we are going to wont a safe place to put them.


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#8
mefsh

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This is not CCP introducing and updating the PLEX system, this is CCP performing a controlled demolition.
 

I like that compression. xD


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#9
Lethys

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I think this new system is just another way to milk players. They want to get more money - that's all

 

To me a DAC system like the old Plex system is fine

 

- Your DACs are safe when you buy them with RL money

- You sell them in a safezone and the buyer can use that DAC with 0% Chance of losing it

- If you want to make huge profits with DAC (shipping them to the next safe zone), you take the risk of losing them

 

Easy, simple, good


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#10
Falstaf

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Needlessly complicated.

I can see the point in breaking up a PLEX/DAC but I'm not quite sure what the real benefit is.

Either way EVE is doing its own thing which is often the opposite of logic. *shrug*
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#11
Shynras

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They did that just to incentivize players to spend their plexes for cosmetics. Devs sell more stuff, players get the option to buy cosmetics with plexes (and since you can buy plexes ingame with the game currency, you can actually buy cosmetics with ingame currency). Another consequence that this patch will have, is the rise in price of plexes, that may be annoying for f2p players. I think that overall it's a nice change, mostly because gives everyone access to the shop, but doesn't really affect me so i don't care, if i want something i buy it anyway.



#12
Aesras

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I like many above prefer the simple DAC system where you buy it and it is worth 1 month gameplay. easy, simple and convenient.


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#13
Robert_Brightstar

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I don't mind that a DAC equals a month gameplay except that one month = 30 days.  Well some months are 30 days, some 31 days and one is 28/29 days.  Even though this is minor it might be even simpler to make a modified DAC (a DACLY?) = 7 days.  Just a thought.


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#14
Falstaf

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I don't mind that a DAC equals a month gameplay except that one month = 30 days. Well some months are 30 days, some 31 days and one is 28/29 days.


I understand what you are saying but in my opinion a payment system should follow the KISS rule.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

While I dont think breaking up a DAC into 7 week blocks is necessarily a bad idea I dont really understand the added value. Perhaps it has some financial benefits that I dont see right now.

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#15
NQ-Nyzaltar

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Hi everyone! 

 

This is an interesting topic and we have to discuss it in the team.

At the moment, it is not planned to change the DAC from the monthly token version to a more fragmented version.

We will keep you informed as soon as we will have discussed about it (and of course all the community feedback will be taken into account)

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar


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#16
Lynkx

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I understand why they created DACs, but I still disagree with it, its OK the game has subscription 
(even knowing 90% of my friends will not be playing with me because of that)

Also, DACs or Any type of item that can be brought off line with real money, and sold in game for game money brings a great unbalance to in-game market.
Gives advantage to rl rich players, since one can buy 100 DACs and trade for gear, weapons, ships etc... (isn't not what PTW is about ?)
Also since its an international game, a player that lives at UK, or other euro country, will aways have advantage over other places with powerless currency. 
and kindda set the market prices parameter up to DACs, not to in-game money, what makes the in-game money very weak. 
(Just imagine a rl country with 2 currencies, the poor workers miners and farmers work hard for copper, while the Rich 


I know its hard for some to get the idea, but i've played few some game servers that and lived on that situation myself in different forms.
the short story of one of those:
"There I was, playing Lineage 2, they claim to be 100% non PTW, they have nothing but cosmetics for real money at they store,..  but you could, optionally, 
purchase a VIP ticket (DAC?), that gives the player few advantages for 30 days period, (exp bonuses, max enchantment bonus, inventory, drop bonus etc)
this advantages not unbalance the game, they are small and you could get everything with few more effort. But the market.... those tickets were trtadable, 
so players with RL money use to get a lot of them and resell in-game, few months later all the in-game market were leveled up to tickets price. 
All the important gear in game ppl only trade for 10 some tomes more tickets, the in-game ticket price became > 30kkk game money. 
Thats when the draw back starts, only the guys that could afford for 10 tickets + per month, were able to buy the TOP gear in-game, and ruled the game PVP,( some of them have equipped all their clans). While we normal players, in game grinders, got very under equipped and just had our ass kicked until most players decide to abandon the server. and the game closed months later by lack of players. ...

I'm not starting and arguing here against the DACs, just telling a story that makes me  a little concern about them.... 
but its just me probably 

see ya

 


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#17
CaptainTwerkmotor

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I understand why they created DACs, but I still disagree with it, its OK the game has subscription 
(even knowing 90% of my friends will not be playing with me because of that)

Also, DACs or Any type of item that can be brought off line with real money, and sold in game for game money brings a great unbalance to in-game market.
Gives advantage to rl rich players, since one can buy 100 DACs and trade for gear, weapons, ships etc... (isn't not what PTW is about ?)
Also since its an international game, a player that lives at UK, or other euro country, will aways have advantage over other places with powerless currency. 
and kindda set the market prices parameter up to DACs, not to in-game money, what makes the in-game money very weak. 
(Just imagine a rl country with 2 currencies, the poor workers miners and farmers work hard for copper, while the Rich 


I know its hard for some to get the idea, but i've played few some game servers that and lived on that situation myself in different forms.
the short story of one of those:
"There I was, playing Lineage 2, they claim to be 100% non PTW, they have nothing but cosmetics for real money at they store,..  but you could, optionally, 
purchase a VIP ticket (DAC?), that gives the player few advantages for 30 days period, (exp bonuses, max enchantment bonus, inventory, drop bonus etc)
this advantages not unbalance the game, they are small and you could get everything with few more effort. But the market.... those tickets were trtadable, 
so players with RL money use to get a lot of them and resell in-game, few months later all the in-game market were leveled up to tickets price. 
All the important gear in game ppl only trade for 10 some tomes more tickets, the in-game ticket price became > 30kkk game money. 
Thats when the draw back starts, only the guys that could afford for 10 tickets + per month, were able to buy the TOP gear in-game, and ruled the game PVP,( some of them have equipped all their clans). While we normal players, in game grinders, got very under equipped and just had our ass kicked until most players decide to abandon the server. and the game closed months later by lack of players. ...

I'm not starting and arguing here against the DACs, just telling a story that makes me  a little concern about them.... 
but its just me probably 

see ya

 

That arguement of yours is full of misconceptions.

DU's combat system doesn't rely on "bigger swords + more lightnings shootign out of its ass == MASSIVE CRITICAL HITS YO. BLADESTORM OF THE EMO PRINCESS HITS YOU FOR 12312671212142156126123612612 Quadrubilluninions worth of Shadow-Darkness-Edgelordly Damage".

DAC's won't buy you a super-weapon, cause there are NO super-weapons. It's not WoW or Lineage 2. DAC is YOU buying the gamecard of a player who is willing to exchange in-game money for it. It's "lots of money but no free time" people, meeting "no money but free time" people half-way. If you are saying "I got enough real money and not enough free time" then I guess it's where normal subscriptions come into play.

Also, Lineage 2 has no cap on its currency generation. DU (like EVE) is planned to have one. Cause you can't farm Rabbits that drop gold.

DACs won't buy you a "+1000 EmoSword of Korean Cashgrabiness".

DU's weapons are "this is a rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine, also, this rifle over there is a Tier-2 rifle, that does slightly more damage and can access better ammunition (Tier-2 Ammunition) and specialised ammunition. The Tier-1 and Tier-2 Rifles have access to modifications, that have Tier-1 and Tier-2 variants, which provide minor bonuses and perks to different aspects."

But here's the thing, no matter what gear you wear, if two guys come up to you with a shotgun each and medium armors, you are dead. The'e's no way you'll survive that. You won't go 1vs10 and win by simply having more lightnings shooting out of your Bikini Armor, overly-sexualised, dark Elf's ears. You can 1vs10, but it will take you practise on soft-skills to do so. It's the same way in EVE (the game DU draws much inspiration out of with its player-driven industry and economy). If you are on a Machariel (a battleship) and 10 Kestrels (frigates) tackle you, you are as good as dead. There's no way you're getting out of there alive (unless you call for backup).

Also, the example you provided is out of the King of Korean MMO-trash, Lineage 2, where private server owners will shut down the server for a day or two just to say "OH MA GOD, GUSY, WE WILL HAVE TO SHUT DOWN THE SERVSRS!!!1111 BUY OUR UBER OFFERZ TO HLEP US OUT". And people are overly tied to their Bikini Armor Dark Elf Bladedancing dominatrixes that they "donate" and get all sorts of rewards for keeping the people owning the server fed, housed and overall, not dead. Cause you know, programmers have to eat as well.

Claiming DAC is Pay2Win, because DACs are bought with real money and can procure you in-game money, which can procure you gear, has the same inherit oxymoron, of me claiming "I think, thus I exist, and since a comet also exists, then a comet also thinks, thus I am a comet".


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#18
Falstaf

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me claiming "I think, thus I exist, and since a comet also exists, then a comet also thinks, thus I am a comet".


Haaa, thanks for that one. :P

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#19
Lord_Void

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To be honest, the new system EVE implemented is a result of its new shareholders. They just want to milk EVE's playerbase on its last ossible revenue and call it a day. That 30 million worth of stock won't balance itself out. So, instead of CCP admitting openly that "hey, we want to ditch PLEX and simply make the game Freemium", they named their new Premium Currency as PLEX.

Why? Cause last time they made something like that the game lost 30% of its playerbase and CCP lost hundreds of millions in damages, so they now play it safe. PLEX is their new Freemium Currency.

And CCP don't care, they got Project Nova to move into. They tried upgrading the game in the past, it backfired horribly (Incarna) then they tried to make it cross-platform (DUST-514), and they realised they can't push EVE any further with the engine they have built it on. So, instead of saying "hey guys, we're going to shut down EVE" they just go like "hey, add a new PLEX system, let's keep EVE profitable before it's tie to take it out the back and shoot the old girl on the head". I see it how it is. This is not CCP introducing and updating the PLEX system, this is CCP performing a controlled demolition.

The previous PLEX system was self-explanatory, the info tab on it spelled out exactly how it worked.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. They are trying to milk EVE for all its worth. It's sad to see because even though I don't log in very often anymore EVE is a game that you never really leave. The only upside is that if people leave EVE some of them will come here, because this will be the only (afaik) fully single shard sandbox space game out there. 

 

The vault though is a good idea. When we get are Dacs from pledging we are going to wont a safe place to put them.

 

I do believe that the DAcs we get from the kickstarter are going to be kept in something akin to a Vault, but DACs purchased after that will be vulnerable.

 

Hi everyone! 

 

This is an interesting topic and we have to discuss it in the team.

At the moment, it is not planned to change the DAC from the monthly token version to a more fragmented version.

We will keep you informed as soon as we will have discussed about it (and of course all the community feedback will be taken into account)

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar

 

Thanks for the response! Always good to see you popping in :)

I see nothing wrong with the current system and I am glad you are holding steady to your original plan. I think if the PLEX changes have shown anything it is that people really like the current model and don't want it to change. 


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#20
Lynkx

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I understand what you are saying but in my opinion a payment system should follow the KISS rule.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Yap Agree with that  ^.^
 

 

Hi everyone! 

 

This is an interesting topic and we have to discuss it in the team.

At the moment, it is not planned to change the DAC from the monthly token version to a more fragmented version.

We will keep you informed as soon as we will have discussed about it (and of course all the community feedback will be taken into account)

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar

Nice, plz keep it simple and we love some consistent information thx !!

 

 

DU's combat system doesn't rely on "bigger swords + more lightnings shootign out of its ass == MASSIVE CRITICAL HITS YO. BLADESTORM OF THE EMO PRINCESS HITS YOU FOR 12312671212142156126123612612 Quadrubilluninions worth of Shadow-Darkness-Edgelordly Damage".

BLA BLA BLA .. I HATE KOREANS AND BIKINI ARMORED SEXY ELVES THAT GLOWS !!!

BLABLABLABLAABLALLA

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